Documented Dialogues
| Documented Dialogues >
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No. 8 Eileen Rae Walsh, Sam Yi Yao Chao, and The Overlook

Documented Dialogues
No. 8:
Eileen Rae Walsh, Sam Yi Yao Chao & The Overlook

| Documented Dialogues No. 8 > is a conversation, via e-mail and IRL, between the artists Eileen Rae Walsh and Sam Yi Yao Chao, and the organizational body of The Overlook gallery. The conversation constellates between e-mail, the exhibition Without Proper Entanglement, and the fern room in The Garfield Conservatory, and employs various discontinuities inherent in processes of intermediary communication.

To what extent does the form of communication effect and allow for useful transgressions that transform intention, method, and product?

Possibilities of Print is an experimental reading, discussion— and sharing— series that aims to explore how print has left a mark or impression on you, personally and creatively. With a focus on the power and importance of printed materials— anything including but not limited to diaries, journals, news pamphlets, magazine ads, books, street signs, etc.— we want to explore how the act of distributing and discovering physically written and printed matter affects the flow of ideas and knowledge in an artist’s life, practice, and community.

You can jump to the plain text version of the transcript by clicking here.

 
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|Documented Dialogues> Bonus Materials
Here's the complimentary auto-caption transcript provided by YouTube.

Above is the conversation as it happened in Gmail, screenshot for the authentic experience. Below you will find a transcript of the conversation in copy & paste-able, searchable, html text.

From: Eileen Walsh    
Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 5:10 PM
To: Samantha Chao

 

x x ,

do you think either of us should be present?

x

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From: Samantha Chao     
Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 12:45 AM
To: Eileen Walsh

 

I think we should both be in the overlook, but I'm open to how? I also remember Alexis saying it should be 30- 40min? So duration is to be considered too?
-
Hey x,

I think for possibilities of print, we can talk about how x as the shape, intersection of and variable was developed. Either all or just one, let me know which one resonates most with you and can possibly expand on?

x is what metaphors we chose to sit with. Specifically of the 2 photograph, when crossed out you chose to stay and you choose to leave. How they were side by side, X is next to and in the position of salmon swimming upstream. Both acting as a metaphor to contain our anxiousness in moving forwards to our separate horizons.

In terms of surveillance and how we really didn't feel that way… The choice of pairing us together and the rules created an interior that allow us to extend out our practice away from our familiar medium.
I also trusted their rules knowing as they structured our relationship through their restriction and limitations as personally being in a long distance relationship. So instead of feeling monitored it was a consciously document for both us to refer to at our own time to make work around. Our art practice intersected, for you its photography but you participated in our performance. For me it was actually being in a studio and having chairs. Its important we always meet really briefly but with intention and permission for intimacy Just like the intersection of x, is a temporary but deliberate point.

I like when I hit the send button, it’s no longer a thought of my own, but I am talking to you, this space allows me    to be more composed and reflective and knowing that my thought is going to be delivered to your ground. When I receive your words, I remember clearly what I was doing and where I was when I receive your messages and your thought accompanies me with the rest of my day. I wrote back as I was walking from home to work. It was difficult  to think with just my head so I think on my feet.

I am sending our left foot print,

22361284_1980676098874500_754332251_n.jpg
60K

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From: Eileen Walsh     
Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 6:27 AM
To: Samantha Chao

 

x x ,

yes, I like thinking about X as structure, intersection -- variable and our constant. I like the way it reflects us as spaces or destinations for each other (environment). and the viewer floating there with us.

I think it would be great to have A monitor our 'interview' during this 'meeting', somehow, but I wonder if we are present through screens, or one of us is and the other on screen, on phone call, our familiar 'physicals' as you called them. I like the idea of A asking questions, audience asking questions while they sit in x map. I also think to ask each other questions, as we did through our unfolding emails would be nice. I think more about surveillance now because our emails have been shared and attached to pieces in the show.

I also wonder if R & M can play a part. or if the printed matter can be looked at and questioned as part of it.

I am waking up sleepy on the farm, it is still dark out and I am going to go to the field in a few moments. first a jog, then to work.

I think about how I don't like the word interview but I like our dialog. It feels less like an interview when I ask 'what is a morning for you?' and more like pushing up a tent wall along our environment with my eyes closed, trying to feel it and edges of you.

I am attaching a picture of a rose I made yesterday. it doesn't really look like a rose. more later today. x

|>

 

From: Eileen Walsh    
Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 6:48 AM
To: Samantha Chao

 


X in the Michigan sunrise sky! Do you see it?
[Quoted text hidden]
[Quoted text hidden]

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From: Samantha Chao    
Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 10:32 AM
To: Eileen Walsh

 

Morning x,
Happy you woke up to this, I'm waking up and on the train but the sky is already blue. the clouds are equally faint. I'm skipping breakfast.

Maybe we can meet each other in the Garfield park conservatory. And the dialog can begin as we are going there. Maybe a three way phone call or email thread. And then when we are there and in the fern room we can share a video.

http://wpe.bitballoon.com/6.html

on dialog, xx

|>

 

From: Samantha Chao    
Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 10:39 AM
To: Eileen Walsh

 

Maybe if we meet before the actual time of the interview because I think the Garfield park conservatory closes before then, we could go to possibilities of print as an audience?

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From: Eileen Walsh    
Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 12:18 PM
To: Samantha Chao

 

I like this idea. Also, what if we gave ourself a challenge to collaborate on something together- in the fern room, that deals with print or publication. How to make a publication in the fern room? I really like the idea of attending as audience.

IMG_7556.JPG 755K

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From: Samantha Chao    
Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 8:55 PM
To: Eileen Walsh

 

Let's do it and let Alexis know, should we just forward this thread? It's hard to summarize because we have yet to meet or have we started already? I think this email thread is a complete script. Maybe this is the script and we can read it to each other as we are going to the fern room or in the fern room (I have a voice recorder left in the overlook) ? I'm just thinking of presentation. The Garfield Park conservatory hours for Monday and Tuesday is 9-5pm. I'm off those days so it depends on you. And we would need to go to possibilities of print at 7-8, as an audience.

Timing is tight,
Remember you asked what I would wear to my wedding and I said pink, now I think we are planning to ditch the wedding as the wedding,
Sam
http://meetmeltmeit.bitballoon.com/

|>

 

From: Eileen Walsh     
Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 9:00 PM
To: Samantha Chao

 

Let's do it, let's forward the thread and meet at the conservatory at 3 or 4 on Tuesday ?

Ditch the wedding as the wedding. Marry the process not the thing. Something like that, I'm tired today. The air is good, I saw another reminder of you in the sky.


X

|>

 

From: Samantha Chao   
Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 9:04 PM
To: Eileen Walsh

 

I'm tired too, and today the sky was bright pink and blue, it felt a little crazy, like a headless flamingo. Get some rest and I find it helps with the tiredness when I admit and say I'm tired,
xx

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From: Samantha Chao    
Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 9:14 PM
To: alexis brocchi

 

Hey Alexis,
We are planning to go to possibilities of print as an audience.
Here is our script that we will read this to each other at the fern room. Can we send you the sound file paired with this email thread to be present (projected) and scrolled down according to the speech (sound file), acting as subtitles.
Would you be able to present it??, Thank you for checking in,
Sam and Eileen

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From: Samantha Chao    
Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 9:17 PM
To: alexis brocchi

 

Quick question, when would be a good time to pick up the sound recorder, I left it in the overlook as part of the show. Thank you so much,
Hope you are well,
Sam

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From: alexis brocchi   
Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 11:08 AM
To: Samantha Chao, Eileen Walsh  

 

Hi Sam,
Thanks for sending this all along! I will take a look over it and write if I have any questions regarding presentation, etc.

Regarding your question, I will actually be over at the Overlook today from 12-3pm for a studio visit. Let me know if anytime between then works for you!

|>

 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Samantha Chao
Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 9:04 PM
To: Eileen Walsh

 


I'm tired too, and today the sky was bright pink and blue, it felt a little crazy, like a headless flamingo. Get some rest and I find it helps with the tiredness when I admit and say I'm tired,
xx

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Let's do it, let's forward the thread and meet at the conservatory at 3 or 4 on Tuesday ?

Ditch the wedding as the wedding. Marry the process not the thing. Something like that, I'm tired today. The air is good, I saw another reminder of you in the sky.
<IMG_7705.JPG>

|>

 

From: Sam    
Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 11:43 AM
To: alexis brocchi

 

Hi Alexis,
Thank you for being so responsive.
I have work till 6 tonight so I will have to miss you. Thank you though and hope to see you soon,
Sam

|>

 

From: alexis brocchi     
Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 2:27 PM
To: Sam

 

Hi Sam,

Not a problem! I can come on Monday evening after work around 6pm if that would work for you?

I looked over the email thread that you have forwarded and I like your plans for this Tuesday— it's thoughtful and ties in well with your communication during the making process!

I do have a few questions in terms of logistics and format:


Is this script the exact text you would like presented on Tuesday? Including the preparation type questions?

Will you add more organic conversation components to your talk at the fern room or firmly stick to your script? (I think some organic comments or discussion about working collaboratively could be interesting)

**Ps. Not all images show up in the thread you forwarded


Would you like one of us at the Overlook to control the scrolling of the script as the sound component is played or allow audience to have control and interact? Would you like to keep the script in the email/ inbox format or pulled to a pdf?


For the format of the night, I can definitely present the dialogue and give some context to the program (Possibilities of Print) and the exhibition.

I would be interested in opening up the conversation after presenting the dialogue— I may have some general topics to pose/ ask audience that comes. Would you or Eileen like to comment on any part of your making process? (totally fine if you don't want to!)

Thanks and looking forward to hearing from you,
Alexis

|>

 

From: Samantha Chao   
Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 10:32 PM
To: alexis brocchi, Eileen Walsh

 

Hey Alexis,

Yes Monday 6ish would be very helpful, thank you for letting me in. Just in case, my number is 3128885347. Hey Alexis and Eileen,
I agree, I think we would stick to the thread just enough for people to be able to follow, but just reading it would be too stale. Also email format doesn't translate the same as face to face conversation, but I think it would be helpful to preserve the date and (1 day ago) in our email. To accumulate and recognize these delays in the fern room, and use this marking of time to sync and transition from the next email thread. So the conversation will be organic and we are thinking of this
meet up as a way to make a publication in the fern room. Having to be in a place and not being able to take the plants and environment with you. How do we recognize and share the remains of dialogue? How this email prepares and gives consent to collaborate....

We would like to keep the script in email format, and maybe you can access my email. This will also troubleshoot the images not showing up. But yes we would like to welcome someone in the overlook or a voluntary audience to scroll through the email thread to synchronize with the sound file.

Yes, I'm excited.

Thank you thank you, see you tomorrow, both the day after, Look forward to hear from you and Eileen too,
Sam

|>

 

From: Eileen Walsh   
Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 9:48 AM
To: Samantha Chao, alexis brocchi

 

hi guys ! I have been thinking about this a lot the past couple of days. I found out last minute I have to move out of my apt so things have been a bit crazy, but I'm headig to the studio tonight after work and will send thoughts. I think having the even itself be more interactive is a good shout, and necessary. anyway, more later and excited! -e

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alexis brocchi     
Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 11:50 AM
To: Eileen Walsh, Samantha Chao

 

Hi Sam and Eileen,
Great, Sam—I will see around 6 tonight!

Thank you both for taking the time to answer/ respond to my questions. I know communicating via email can be very tedious sometimes. Looking forward to hearing more soon and again, excited to work with you both!

Best,
Alexis

|>

 

Eileen Walsh     
Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 10:09 PM
To: alexis brocchi, Samantha Chao

 

Hi! Thoughts:
I think the dialog of our conversation in the fern room should the played in the space to start. An the emails can be present / being scrolled through or projected during this time. I think that I will bring a copy of the publication to the Fern Room for us to look at, and maybe this will be present in X X & I's dialog and conversation there, as we also experience the environment and chat. I think that having an open dialog while we sit in the audience after the sound from our visit to the Fern room / the emails are shared would be really nice. Open to Q's, and open for you to as us Q's. Sam, do you feel good about this? I love a thing that comes together so presently and actively in a moment. Thanks to you both for being open to this. It is, anyway, how this all happened. An open dialog / process with in the space tomorrow evening will provide ground for the audience to better understand how and why we have navigated our relationship and work this way, and also the program / chance to work with you on this event, this way. And conversations about our physical work / the publication will unfold and tie into. It is so interesting, that X X and I have been working through email and screen as our physical, and the event is about the possibility of the physical and the print. I think with out talking about it too much, we are challenging a lot about medium and collaboration, and I am sure we will have an interesting conversation tomorrow evening.

I hope I'm making sense. I'm in my studio after working all day and moving. hah.

It all feels good. Alexis, do you have any further questions or concerns? Sam, any thoughts or issues with the flow of tomorrow? I'm taking tomorrow off work and have some more moving to do, but am available here or on phone, XXXXXXXXXX. Will you have a computer and projector to work with / from?

x e

|>

 

alexis brocchi     
Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 12:05 PM
To: Eileen Walsh , Samantha Chao

 

Hi Eileen,
Thank you for the thoughtful response! I agree, I think this will be a nice tie in as the exhibition comes to an end and your relationship as collaborators continues to evolve.

I think both you and Sam have covered it all with your thoughts and responses to my questions– I'm looking forward to tonight and the conversations that will come out of it!
Thank you both again for working on this program with us, Best,
Alexis

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okay I started okay I want to always

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conduct business in the firm where does

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the most it starts with do you think

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either of us should be present hmm and

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then I think I think we both should

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in the overlooked one open to how I also

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am very electricity should be 30 to 40

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minutes so the relation is to be

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considered to but yet the duration was

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like how long we feel like talking but

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yeah I started to even seeing what X

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represents or mean to us and it began I

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was like a mistake yeah um how is it

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Riley or Maya coffee day yeah yeah and

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like forgot my e which I was so cool and

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he also told me like do I want to am I

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shaped by X or Y by Y I wrote that

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question down again it was to shape X or

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to be shaped by X in terms of like your

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practice and how you like whether it's

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like bringing something into being and

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then experiencing it for reacting to

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something so after this whole process

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what do you think of the shape of pitch

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I could you recognize how you're shaped

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by your environment I feel like I was

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thinking a lot about I'm red train hair

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like the way I keep singing XS in the

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world even how like the idea of X and

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therefore the thought of you became this

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kind of subconsciously

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pattern recognizer identifiers like out

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in the world and I like that by being

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the shape of X in the world I've been

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like was thinking of you and then was

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like with you in that moment I also like

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how its is like a very terrible it's

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like a very open their room and we can

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always like put metaphors and replace

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the it's it's also a very nice way to be

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fixed while like we're moving and it's

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like nice to just recognize it in

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different places and like not have it

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too concrete it's like an observational

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it and it's like a nice place to like

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we're in the fern room because one time

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you sent me like a map and then you're

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like X as place and I recognized it was

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in the Garfield Park Conservatory so a

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couple days after I like came to the

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fern room myself and like sitting near

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the flat sound file so you brought me

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like where to go

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yeah I feel I really like thinking about

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I was like trying to think about like

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this publication too and it being kind

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of like like thinking about it as a

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treasure map or the way that eggs like

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can be like a marking of something or

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like a destination too as well but I

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don't know that but I feel like our

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collaboration I didn't think of X that

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way it's so much like I was never really

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trying to like get to a place I was like

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always with and like within

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that makes sense now maybe not like

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directly like to really go to the places

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but it's like when you told me about how

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you have a studio I wanted to understand

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what's like to have a studio so I like

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cleared up my home storage unit to make

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a studio and you ask me what's like to

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sit like these questions you impose I

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like not like you asked me I wanted to

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experience it for myself and we kind of

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ground it from my physicality and I live

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around it and then make work around it

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your friends there was like a bitmap

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version of it yeah the other one was I

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think just a screenshot of your

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handwriting someone either left-handed

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drawing like writing things that you

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sent me what was it like for

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transferring the file and to like a

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different well so the xn is the bitmap

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was transferred that way it's like by

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the designer that I worked for on the

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publication and an attempt to like get

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that X to print a certain way which I

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also was it like the grainy quality that

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yeah yeah for sure yeah those two those

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two don't feel like my like prints or

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images so much as like the other ones do

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they just feel like like a marker

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placeholder for something or like a

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reference to like an indicator that's

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why they're hung with clips and not like

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directly attached

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the wall I think that in the way that

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you would like reactive questions

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through your environment I would I feel

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like rather than like you would answer

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questions and then like also tell me

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different things or through our

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conversations I was just thinking of the

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things we talked about when making work

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and like identifying and seeing those

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things in my both in my studio and out

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in the world to in order to make work

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hmm so it was more of like visualizing

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connections that we had made our

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conversations we had that through with

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my own process

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what do you how do you think about this

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do you like I want to hold it longer

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like I want a copy of it I don't have

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one yet

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no they don't have $2 with my guys until

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you just take one I like the

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disappearance when I open this bread

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then you come to me it's a visual it's

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like that screenshot yeah from the video

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but I can't really see the video but

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it's okay and it's like very spineless

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like it wasn't pulled together and like

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a linear way there's no they're not

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really I kind of like like phonological

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yeah just like material and how how we

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collected our conversation to go through

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and I think is like the most accurate

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way to show how we made work it was just

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like we would really just keep talking

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and they're like hold on the thought or

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hold on a metaphor and like continue on

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like you know continue to observe and I

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was also very intrigued by how you

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transfer a video to the print like your

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fish the fish print so very in motion

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and then next to the X like I was just

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thinking of video editing and having

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that stage like I could replace them

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both without them kind of like fusing so

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I think you've created like a really

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nice and direct space in between like we

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could compare and see some molarity but

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we should but it's like you still kept

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the difference yeah like and it should

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also state somehow unfixed yes I think

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that's what like

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create a publication if something

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becomes still fixed and like final and

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has it like beginning middle and end

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sometimes and the idea that this doesn't

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really feel like it has like a beginning

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middle and end it feels like this kind

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of like continuous like you know stream

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of consciousness like definitely thing

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between us that could like keep going on

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like more pages to keeping at it or less

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or like I don't know because I feel like

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this collaboration like for me the work

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or the collaboration isn't necessarily

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in the work that's in the digital space

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but is in the way that you and I like

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continue to like have conversations and

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be a part of each other's like thought

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and practice ruling even in like when

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I'm like running on the farm and I send

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you a picture of like Enix in the sky

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and how like for me the like this the

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work isn't like over the separation

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isn't over like you'll kind of always be

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like a part of like that collaboration

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will always be part of my practice or

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like navigating of my also practice yeah

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and I hope I liked how daily like the

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repetitions or daily but also so

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different like in this print there's

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like X and then I saw that you collage

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like two birds together to form in it's

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it's like very recognizable but also

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very fragmented

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like when you keep like when you keep

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like staring at something it becomes

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less of an object and they're like sucks

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it speaks to me like if I keep reading

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this it would I would hear the voice in

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my head you know be I think that's how

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we made work to like we can be like just

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kept talking and I kept introducing our

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day like sometimes replaced like what we

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did like today's laundry even next day

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yeah oranges well because they think

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this collaboration was as much about us

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getting to know each other as like

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through the you know our version of

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physical through email through whatever

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as much as it was like making work like

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we I think that rather than like try and

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get to know each other and then say all

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right what how will we make the work now

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what's the project let's come up with an

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idea it was like the process of getting

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to know each other became the work and

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became the way that us forming a

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relationship affected our individual

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practices and I like how making the work

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doesn't interfere with us living in our

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life like it's part of our work is not

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like an ideal situation where were both

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isolated and like a stream we're

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fortunate but I like isolated they were

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really go to a studio in Sedona we're

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like okay what is the work what is the

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work yeah very forceful or like there's

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nothing to disinfect mmm

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but there is a lot of like deliberate

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choices

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do you feel like like

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do you think differently now about your

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relationships you like your everyday

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life and your practice and artwork than

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you did previously yeah yeah and this

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this project really helped it's um

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I think before I was quite isolated or I

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didn't really I mean well right now I'm

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going through like the artist visa

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application so it's like my position in

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a place there's being questions and I

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I'm trying to form work from it but they

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have to reinforce each other

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so I like I'm like thinking more towards

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how I'm linked to a certain place like

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I'm more communicative now and then more

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I'm like less kind of a hermit or like

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doing things on my own and it's just

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needing to exist and I'm also it's like

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the making work part there I'm like

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always used to think being incomplete

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and like waiting for it so that can

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change it on like that

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how about you how does being a forest

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yeah affect your photography I think

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that it affected the most in the sense

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that like dealing with flowers there's

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like it's like a couple parts dealing

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with flowers is very much like dealing

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with the materials for me so it's like

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it has a texture and a color and a

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buoyancy on a plant and a shape in a way

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that it's existing on a plane and space

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and no thinking like as an image maker

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about those things through but then also

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like when you you know take a picture of

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a flower wanting that picture of a

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flower to be more of a flower then maybe

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even the flower is and so handling them

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all the time and touching them all the

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time and really then thinking about how

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the experience of something like that

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translates in a way that moves maybe

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beyond like a path a direct path to

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beauty and more of a path to

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understanding its existence there's also

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like a lot of what I do on the farm is

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like taking care of the flowers like

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weeding like there's something about and

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I think that this is like super tight

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sore the way that I'm minimizing my life

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right now

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mmm it's like removing these weeds from

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the plant it's like creating room for

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the plant to breathe and like making

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sure that the plants getting the water

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and not the weeds around it

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was cool sorry it's okay so yeah I don't

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know there's something about the act of

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removing those weeds and making sure

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that this is fair like flower has a more

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direct source to what it means by

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clearing the paw of a flower and I feel

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like I'm doing so much of that in my

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life

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right now and just like getting rid of

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anything that is interfering feel like

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kind of like most essential connection

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to what I care about the most and

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through that the things I care about the

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most are also being revealed tomorrow

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like yeah which I feel like even happen

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in our like through our conversations to

292
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like only having a thousand words yeah

293
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I would also have been that thank you

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for the bouquet and having like a bit

295
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out of scrap flowers and the colors are

296
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also like Salman and yeah so I was like

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very deliberate but also very

298
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resourceful and there's like a lot of

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care in that delivering like in terms of

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like the hospitality of it it was like

301
00:15:07,450 --> 00:15:12,700
the workshop yeah I was it was more

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deliberate like it felt less of a

303
00:15:12,700 --> 00:15:19,510
restriction but more of like I never was

304
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that worried about it meet you but I

305
00:15:19,510 --> 00:15:27,700
felt like I needed I felt like how do I

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talk with less work or be like write

307
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more direct mmm and more kind of non

308
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dialogue like we I uh yeah like there's

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more space for you to enter hang on when

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you tear down yeah because you're not

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like the bare minimum on that are okay

312
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yeah if it's like because you take away

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like the like you don't have as much of

314
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a chance to describe something so

315
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through just how you're describing it it

316
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becomes more of a streamline of sharing

317
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like that's like the fruit of the thing

318
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rather than like describing how you

319
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experience that you know so then like I

320
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was able to then for our my relationship

321
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to

322
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you explaining to me like hot soup or

323
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like those kinds of things I also I

324
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wanted to bring you flowers because I

325
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felt like you were giving me this gift

326
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and sharing this foot bath and then I

327
00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:22,630
was like I had been thinking about what

328
00:16:19,030 --> 00:16:24,250
I could give you like first like which I

329
00:16:22,630 --> 00:16:26,650
still think about in a weird way I'm

330
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like in my days like thinking about what

331
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I can like give to maybe because it felt

332
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like we were giving to each other back

333
00:16:30,940 --> 00:16:36,940
and forth for so many months like I

334
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don't know and I think us going back and

335
00:16:36,940 --> 00:16:42,150
forth reassurance that were on the same

336
00:16:39,250 --> 00:16:45,460
page like I really like is enough phone

337
00:16:42,150 --> 00:16:48,130
conversation we both want the foot bath

338
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to be like non-central and yeah intimate

339
00:16:48,130 --> 00:16:55,480
and kind of cuz I was I was worried

340
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about that

341
00:16:55,480 --> 00:17:01,210
at first because it's like everyone

342
00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:03,490
everyone's with fast connotation is a

343
00:17:01,210 --> 00:17:05,380
bit different and I wanted but I'm I

344
00:17:03,490 --> 00:17:08,980
trusted you that you knew the metaphor

345
00:17:05,380 --> 00:17:11,410
and I when I suggested because I knew

346
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you liked flowers I was thinking of what

347
00:17:11,410 --> 00:17:16,569
scent to do the foot back you know yeah

348
00:17:14,140 --> 00:17:18,790
cuz I thought did you add oils in the

349
00:17:16,569 --> 00:17:22,270
area yeah and then I was like maybe we

350
00:17:18,790 --> 00:17:24,760
can put flowers or you can you suggested

351
00:17:22,270 --> 00:17:29,530
we using the foot bath water for

352
00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:32,380
something yeah and and then that's when

353
00:17:29,530 --> 00:17:35,920
I thought about like using the like the

354
00:17:32,380 --> 00:17:38,590
soup metaphor kind of connected to that

355
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:41,620
what stuck on how to transfer the foot

356
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bath to soup metaphor without being like

357
00:17:41,620 --> 00:17:49,300
disgusting you know like you taste it

358
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like it's your feet the bed we ended up

359
00:17:49,300 --> 00:17:57,770
like using the Tupperware I got to

360
00:17:54,810 --> 00:18:00,460
transfer the water at you

361
00:17:57,770 --> 00:18:07,040
Klinger eyes go farther and then

362
00:18:00,460 --> 00:18:08,780
introspect differently and feel like

363
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:12,350
you're a very morning person

364
00:18:08,780 --> 00:18:14,480
I am that's how when you wake oh you use

365
00:18:12,350 --> 00:18:18,460
this is that normally like when you

366
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:20,450
write to me well not before I got coffee

367
00:18:18,460 --> 00:18:23,210
that's it

368
00:18:20,450 --> 00:18:25,790
I'm like useless so like I wake up and I

369
00:18:23,210 --> 00:18:28,730
and I try not like look at my phone or

370
00:18:25,790 --> 00:18:31,040
engage like with anything before just

371
00:18:28,730 --> 00:18:32,990
like hopping coffees I sometimes I'm

372
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:35,120
better at it than other times depends on

373
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like where I am out of my life but the

374
00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:38,870
mornings I think would be the time I

375
00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:40,790
would think about you and like think

376
00:18:38,870 --> 00:18:42,890
about what you had responded to and like

377
00:18:40,790 --> 00:18:44,690
kind of form intention around like a

378
00:18:42,890 --> 00:18:46,790
response or a piece or something and

379
00:18:44,690 --> 00:18:48,500
then it would usually be later in the

380
00:18:46,790 --> 00:18:51,680
day in the afternoon or evenings when I

381
00:18:48,500 --> 00:18:54,070
would actually write I think and then

382
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:57,080
when you take a picture of this guy

383
00:18:54,070 --> 00:19:00,170
that's usually in the morning on a run

384
00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:02,810
or if the subset happens for both of

385
00:19:00,170 --> 00:19:04,100
those for summarize excuse for most of

386
00:19:02,810 --> 00:19:07,220
them are summarized I foods I like

387
00:19:04,100 --> 00:19:08,990
getting up with this then it's a lot

388
00:19:07,220 --> 00:19:12,640
easier when I'm on the phone it's like

389
00:19:08,990 --> 00:19:14,890
different in the city but

390
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:17,380
on the farm that's recite to go to bed

391
00:19:14,890 --> 00:19:19,179
early and you wake up early just like

392
00:19:17,380 --> 00:19:21,520
you want to be outside like I'm out

393
00:19:19,179 --> 00:19:23,440
there and I'm like how much air can I

394
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:25,450
put in my lung and put your to date is

395
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,429
like I need all of it all of it which is

396
00:19:25,450 --> 00:19:29,920
why I look like I started coming to the

397
00:19:27,429 --> 00:19:31,660
front room regularly when I moved to

398
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,970
Chicago from Florida because I like

399
00:19:31,660 --> 00:19:38,860
missed the like consistency of the air

400
00:19:33,970 --> 00:19:41,140
I'm like the human yeah very totally I

401
00:19:38,860 --> 00:19:42,760
used to like run to the fern area at the

402
00:19:41,140 --> 00:19:47,140
destination for my runs and then just

403
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:49,480
sit in there and like for you and it's

404
00:19:47,140 --> 00:19:51,700
weird like for example if you didn't dry

405
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:54,880
your laundry and there's moss it's not

406
00:19:51,700 --> 00:19:57,340
like a fern room experience but like if

407
00:19:54,880 --> 00:20:00,309
you're here and the fern kind of just

408
00:19:57,340 --> 00:20:03,790
girls and it's so like well made to

409
00:20:00,309 --> 00:20:09,790
enjoy then we like moss Yeah right like

410
00:20:03,790 --> 00:20:20,919
it's I think I do the opposite leg I

411
00:20:09,790 --> 00:20:22,360
think just I sleep flip your side yeah

412
00:20:20,919 --> 00:20:22,990
well you're not you're not a morning

413
00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:29,380
person

414
00:20:22,990 --> 00:20:31,570
no it's a warm in bed by like like I

415
00:20:29,380 --> 00:20:34,720
read your email and I don't respond

416
00:20:31,570 --> 00:20:36,940
immediately and then I sleep with it and

417
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:40,679
then I like continue on but then I only

418
00:20:36,940 --> 00:20:43,900
like I really think about it or start

419
00:20:40,679 --> 00:20:47,620
for formulating my conversation with you

420
00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:49,720
when I'm like walking back or like in

421
00:20:47,620 --> 00:20:52,059
the Train like commuting somewhere I

422
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:56,919
think it's like really it's better to

423
00:20:52,059 --> 00:21:00,400
concentrate when I'm like emotion mm-hmm

424
00:20:56,919 --> 00:21:03,850
so that's how I clear things up too I'm

425
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:06,070
that way with running so sure but when

426
00:21:03,850 --> 00:21:06,840
I'm walking I hate trying to write

427
00:21:06,070 --> 00:21:08,580
anything

428
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,770
I'm watching if they just want to be

429
00:21:08,580 --> 00:21:13,500
walking but I like how our practices

430
00:21:10,770 --> 00:21:16,020
like of sitting with each others like

431
00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:20,850
thoughts or work Eclipse each other in

432
00:21:16,020 --> 00:21:23,190
that sense that like when you're like

433
00:21:20,850 --> 00:21:27,260
we're doing things opposite times like

434
00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:27,260
but then they intersect as well

435
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:35,970
the other wasn't really like the way we

436
00:21:33,930 --> 00:21:38,010
structure things there is structure with

437
00:21:35,970 --> 00:21:40,020
not like them imposed structure but a

438
00:21:38,010 --> 00:21:42,360
good interview now right like we dis

439
00:21:40,020 --> 00:21:45,090
plan for it but we also did it really

440
00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:47,460
like really really no we didn't plan on

441
00:21:45,090 --> 00:21:51,140
like what it will look like but we did

442
00:21:47,460 --> 00:21:51,140
plan to do it all the time

443
00:21:51,500 --> 00:21:59,940
and it's not the like the measurement

444
00:21:54,180 --> 00:22:04,740
isn't so fixed or is not as like like

445
00:21:59,940 --> 00:22:08,250
scientific like accurate early they may

446
00:22:04,740 --> 00:22:13,280
only plan what time we would meet and to

447
00:22:08,250 --> 00:22:15,870
be there and that's the start of it ring

448
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:19,530
but I like because we didn't have that

449
00:22:15,870 --> 00:22:21,840
structure I was thinking of like how to

450
00:22:19,530 --> 00:22:27,300
measure it on our own terms

451
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:29,610
last fall - right like what is the

452
00:22:27,300 --> 00:22:31,740
measure for s mmm like what it becomes

453
00:22:29,610 --> 00:22:35,940
the thing and it's like only important

454
00:22:31,740 --> 00:22:40,740
if you you follow it like we follow each

455
00:22:35,940 --> 00:22:42,510
other's rules right like if I if I

456
00:22:40,740 --> 00:22:45,000
imposed some things and then you didn't

457
00:22:42,510 --> 00:22:47,670
do it then it's there's no structure to

458
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,760
it right whatever you do something and I

459
00:22:47,670 --> 00:22:52,100
don't

460
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:57,730
yeah like it only if the thing only

461
00:22:52,100 --> 00:22:57,730
exists when we react to each other

462
00:23:01,559 --> 00:23:08,740
yeah yeah random questions wait what's

463
00:23:05,799 --> 00:23:17,830
your preferred toothpaste ah I really

464
00:23:08,740 --> 00:23:21,340
like mints one Colgate is nice too it's

465
00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:24,640
like really like creamy but have you

466
00:23:21,340 --> 00:23:26,650
seen Colgate dry it dries it's like a

467
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:29,380
plaster that's true it is really good

468
00:23:26,650 --> 00:23:34,120
dry and crest just creates like a creepy

469
00:23:29,380 --> 00:23:45,220
that crust feels like mouthwash like no

470
00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:48,640
you use well I use imagine for Colgate

471
00:23:45,220 --> 00:23:56,919
like my teeth is white and then it did

472
00:23:48,640 --> 00:24:04,169
like it looks like my teeth do you have

473
00:23:56,919 --> 00:24:08,380
any question you said you had a designer

474
00:24:04,169 --> 00:24:11,320
oh yeah maybe I didn't know that totally

475
00:24:08,380 --> 00:24:16,299
and so it's this person and realistic

476
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:17,350
who is great and was the reason this

477
00:24:16,299 --> 00:24:21,100
thing can exist

478
00:24:17,350 --> 00:24:25,059
yeah what was his thoughts on this the

479
00:24:21,100 --> 00:24:28,000
whole thing we're making it yeah I mean

480
00:24:25,059 --> 00:24:29,830
he he was just great and like I would

481
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,240
give him material and he would sort of

482
00:24:29,830 --> 00:24:32,860
like move it around and then we sat

483
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:36,159
together and just like moved things

484
00:24:32,860 --> 00:24:39,399
around and like it came into being but

485
00:24:36,159 --> 00:24:41,799
like so who did the tape thing so the

486
00:24:39,399 --> 00:24:43,240
tape is the red tape from my studio it's

487
00:24:41,799 --> 00:24:45,279
like that color in my studio from all

488
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:50,289
that pictures I would send you and then

489
00:24:45,279 --> 00:24:52,750
he's like he's like has he been to you

490
00:24:50,289 --> 00:24:54,610
yeah a good representation of what your

491
00:24:52,750 --> 00:24:58,720
studio looks like oh yeah this is far

492
00:24:54,610 --> 00:25:01,720
more beautiful but he's just great in

493
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:04,659
like visualizing like oh that's me isn't

494
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:06,279
that super nice whoa so like I feel like

495
00:25:04,659 --> 00:25:07,630
working with a designer if you would be

496
00:25:06,279 --> 00:25:10,260
able to like material

497
00:25:07,630 --> 00:25:12,610
physically make our criminal

498
00:25:10,260 --> 00:25:14,860
collaboration like coming to being like

499
00:25:12,610 --> 00:25:16,840
moments where like this feels very much

500
00:25:14,860 --> 00:25:19,330
like how we thought like we're like

501
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:21,580
things like or like how I would think

502
00:25:19,330 --> 00:25:23,530
about looking at our work together we're

503
00:25:21,580 --> 00:25:25,120
laughing yeah and then whittling also

504
00:25:23,530 --> 00:25:27,660
lining up in moments and then not

505
00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:31,660
another room I really like that it yeah

506
00:25:27,660 --> 00:25:33,490
so I don't know I feel like I'm now also

507
00:25:31,660 --> 00:25:35,020
just like every artist should work with

508
00:25:33,490 --> 00:25:38,320
it is I ever like they can just make

509
00:25:35,020 --> 00:25:40,090
things so much like it's just like all

510
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:46,260
the things I want to came into like into

511
00:25:40,090 --> 00:25:46,260
being which is amazing yeah

512
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:56,670
the tape is like another layer of ink

513
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,670
which is cool

514
00:26:00,980 --> 00:26:03,490
yeah

515
00:26:07,340 --> 00:26:19,879
I'm gonna take one thank you yeah yeah

516
00:26:16,249 --> 00:26:22,370
this is it made for XXIX this is a date

517
00:26:19,879 --> 00:26:25,700
in the Roman numerals and it's an

518
00:26:22,370 --> 00:26:27,440
edition of 39 and in collaboration with

519
00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:29,870
Angie James Lister

520
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:32,990
thank you which I also like really

521
00:26:29,870 --> 00:26:34,940
wanted to like extend the notion of

522
00:26:32,990 --> 00:26:37,249
collaboration my chickens sure there it

523
00:26:34,940 --> 00:26:39,350
may be a thing for the show like having

524
00:26:37,249 --> 00:26:40,669
everything be a dialogue where something

525
00:26:39,350 --> 00:26:43,909
is brought to the table that wasn't

526
00:26:40,669 --> 00:26:46,460
previously on other people yeah and when

527
00:26:43,909 --> 00:26:50,509
I also I think part of making the work

528
00:26:46,460 --> 00:26:51,379
was also like trying to tell my friends

529
00:26:50,509 --> 00:26:56,480
what I'm doing

530
00:26:51,379 --> 00:27:01,369
oh my gosh sorry I'd be like well I'm

531
00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:03,259
just I'm well Ann Andrews like was like

532
00:27:01,369 --> 00:27:06,139
hearing about this collaboration and

533
00:27:03,259 --> 00:27:09,110
like and I was always just like what it

534
00:27:06,139 --> 00:27:11,330
is but it what is it yeah I think it's

535
00:27:09,110 --> 00:27:13,669
also like do you have did you ever have

536
00:27:11,330 --> 00:27:15,799
a very intimate relationship for email

537
00:27:13,669 --> 00:27:22,159
and then they would like try to think of

538
00:27:15,799 --> 00:27:26,629
how they feel and email right and then

539
00:27:22,159 --> 00:27:28,490
we would just like yes it's like it's

540
00:27:26,629 --> 00:27:31,610
like nice to just imagine who you were

541
00:27:28,490 --> 00:27:32,389
or like the characteristics yeah so

542
00:27:31,610 --> 00:27:34,429
there's like I real

543
00:27:32,389 --> 00:27:35,929
there was really no context in terms of

544
00:27:34,429 --> 00:27:42,980
any weight so what didn't your friends

545
00:27:35,929 --> 00:27:45,980
think oh I don't really remember well I

546
00:27:42,980 --> 00:27:50,990
thought you were very poetic nobody's

547
00:27:45,980 --> 00:27:52,639
ever said that but why would they have

548
00:27:50,990 --> 00:27:59,659
to tell you what you are if you're right

549
00:27:52,639 --> 00:28:02,269
here like you are and I imagined you to

550
00:27:59,659 --> 00:28:04,289
be very tactile and I think you are very

551
00:28:02,269 --> 00:28:08,139
yeah

552
00:28:04,289 --> 00:28:09,909
like I imagine like furniture making a

553
00:28:08,139 --> 00:28:14,379
sculpture because you just talked about

554
00:28:09,909 --> 00:28:16,330
chairs like and you went home like like

555
00:28:14,379 --> 00:28:20,950
there's something really like handy and

556
00:28:16,330 --> 00:28:24,850
reliable and supportive about you but I

557
00:28:20,950 --> 00:28:31,929
mean I was being very literal baby

558
00:28:24,850 --> 00:28:34,149
needed yeah but I mean it was nice to

559
00:28:31,929 --> 00:28:38,529
just make that but like not really like

560
00:28:34,149 --> 00:28:42,330
know that they're just assumption but

561
00:28:38,529 --> 00:28:46,749
they'll be like house like house your

562
00:28:42,330 --> 00:28:48,789
friends high up like email penpal like

563
00:28:46,749 --> 00:28:50,980
there's also like it's hard to define

564
00:28:48,789 --> 00:28:54,759
what you order to collaborate in

565
00:28:50,980 --> 00:28:56,830
collaborator yes I would always say like

566
00:28:54,759 --> 00:28:58,720
unknown collaborator or anonymous

567
00:28:56,830 --> 00:29:02,109
collaborator but I often you just said

568
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:06,999
like accent yeah yeah I was like you

569
00:29:02,109 --> 00:29:11,019
know like that - yeah and it was like

570
00:29:06,999 --> 00:29:12,609
cuz we were like I was working on it but

571
00:29:11,019 --> 00:29:14,559
living at the same time so it's like

572
00:29:12,609 --> 00:29:17,769
there's gonna like what are you working

573
00:29:14,559 --> 00:29:19,389
on there's a foot back so what's gonna I

574
00:29:17,769 --> 00:29:25,869
wouldn't I said the same thing I know

575
00:29:19,389 --> 00:29:27,850
there's gonna be a from a metaphor other

576
00:29:25,869 --> 00:29:30,249
they're like eyes or there were moments

577
00:29:27,850 --> 00:29:35,169
where I was like really stuck in my head

578
00:29:30,249 --> 00:29:38,529
on it and then I I needed it was like

579
00:29:35,169 --> 00:29:39,850
nice to be stuck to this legs dialogue

580
00:29:38,529 --> 00:29:41,799
could only do so much

581
00:29:39,850 --> 00:29:43,659
right right right then I started using

582
00:29:41,799 --> 00:29:46,570
my left hand and my left feet

583
00:29:43,659 --> 00:29:50,249
like I needed something physical to like

584
00:29:46,570 --> 00:29:50,249
the fight it's being very communicative

585
00:29:52,710 --> 00:29:59,620
like thinking on my feet my hands and

586
00:29:56,500 --> 00:30:03,639
like recognizing that I do need to thank

587
00:29:59,620 --> 00:30:07,059
you physically and I picked the left

588
00:30:03,639 --> 00:30:10,570
side because it was like more foreign so

589
00:30:07,059 --> 00:30:15,129
like getting to know you or like because

590
00:30:10,570 --> 00:30:17,019
before I press send I was kind of like

591
00:30:15,129 --> 00:30:20,649
the thought is just composed for myself

592
00:30:17,019 --> 00:30:22,960
and to like also know like kind of carve

593
00:30:20,649 --> 00:30:24,820
it in my own head too before I send it

594
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:27,730
to you and like when I send it to you

595
00:30:24,820 --> 00:30:29,950
like I realized the physicality or like

596
00:30:27,730 --> 00:30:32,259
there the ground and like a very like

597
00:30:29,950 --> 00:30:34,960
suddenly surprise that you'll give that

598
00:30:32,259 --> 00:30:42,009
something for me to ponder upon and

599
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:44,830
again didn't I loved getting an email

600
00:30:42,009 --> 00:30:48,669
like there's like one of my favorite

601
00:30:44,830 --> 00:30:52,110
breakfasts or something it was a good

602
00:30:48,669 --> 00:30:52,110
companionship yeah

603
00:30:55,450 --> 00:31:01,630
[Laughter]

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