Documented Dialogues
| Documented Dialogues >
Screen Shot 2017-11-09 at 11.01.57 PM.png

No.7 Caroline Picard, Rhonda Holberton & Tsherin Sherpa

Documented Dialogues
No. 7:
Caroline Picard, Rhonda Holberton & Tsherin Sherpa

 

| Documented Dialogues No. 7 > is a conversation between curator Caroline Picard and artists Rhonda Holberton & Tsherin Sherpa. The conversation takes place within the exhibition Coming of Age at Sector 2337, and discusses the recontextualization of historical and formal heritages, the intersections of immaterial and material forms, and the capacity of attention to transport.

What possibilities emerge when the immediacy of the virtual verges on the historical?

 
 
  Below is an excerpt of this Documented Dialogue, transcribed from the video above:
|Artworks featured in order of appearance> 

1. Rhonda HolbertonA FIXED RESISTANCE. Pigment Print on Wallcovering, 12.5 x 55’’. 15.; Rhonda Holberton, 1 and 3 from A FALLEN PIXEL. Foam, Polyurea, 18 x 11 x 11.25”, 28.25 x 17.50 x 17.25”.

2.  Tsherin SherpaUntitled,  2017. Acrylic and ink on cotton, 44 x 45.5”.

3.  Aki InomataWhy Not Hand Over a “Shelter” to hermit crabs?, 2009-2016. Mixed media, dimensions variable.Installation view, Sector 2337, Chicago, 2017. 

4.  Ebony G. Patterson, 10, 18, 47, 33, 28, from Invisible Presence: Bling Memories , 2014. Fabric, acrylic paint, adhesive, fabric flowers, pinus palustris, lace, rhinestones, ribbons, tassels, crochet doily, crochet tassels, fabric appliques, glitter, pearls, 119 x 24 x 12”.

5.  Ebony G. Patterson, Excerpt from Invisible Presence: Bling Memories, 2014. In collaboration with Michelle Serioux HD Video, 9:40min.

6.  Takahiro IwasakiArchitecture (roach motel), 2012. Cockroach trap and watch,  dimension variable.

7.  Takahiro IwasakiOut of Disorder (Navy Pier),  2017. Beach towel, dimension variable.

8.  Takahiro IwasakiTectonic Model, 2017.  Books, dimension variable.

9.  Takahiro IwasakiOut of Disorder (brush), 2017. Toothbrush, dimension variable.

10.  Aki InomataI Wear the Dog’s Hair and the Dog Wears My Hair ,2014. A cape made of dog’s hair; a cape made of human hair; photo, inkjet print; 11x27”, 15x7”, 14x21”.

11.  Essi KausalainenAnette and Marin at the beach,  2017. HD video, 7 min.

|Documented Dialogues> Bonus Materials
Here's the complimentary auto-caption transcript provided by YouTube.

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I'm Caroline Picard and I curated an

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exhibition called

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coming-of-age at sector to 337 and

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Chicago there are about seven artists in

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the show and today we are fortunate or I

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feel very fortunate anyway to be

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speaking with the sharing Sherpa and

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around a whole Burton maybe just to

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start if you all would be comfortable

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talking a little bit about your camera

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sure my work in this show is a wallpaper

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covering in the back it's comprised

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composite image made from sand dunes

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some of the photographs I took myself

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insolvency military bases of

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decommissioned military base and it

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really struck me I wasn't expecting to

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find that please wonder engines they

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were kind of wandered over this

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extensively erode but it was kind of an

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awful situation and so this Mandy was

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just kind of covering the middle of the

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road and they're just wandering and it

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struck me it worked this is a time

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during the drought in California and it

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really struck me that this landscape

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could be so many other places there

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wasn't really the kind of specificity of

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vegetation and that just kind of stuck

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with me and it was it was there for

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another project and I just kind of kept

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the images of that in the back of my

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mind and then was working through a 3d

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animation that had procedurally

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generated sand dunes in it and part of

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that animation was going to be installed

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in an exhibition and so it made sense to

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me to kind of revisit this in

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and to create a landscape that was made

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of this globalizing escape so include

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students from the Gobi Desert and Sahara

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all over continents it was kind of

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coming together but it's really clear

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that there it's a composite right you

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can see breaks in the image and then the

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two rocks that sit in front of the

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wallpaper were downloaded from a 3d

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database the library used primarily by

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game developers and so the rock is a

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free models as a you know a lot of

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downloads so I'm just like a kind of

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imagined that this this rock would have

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been populated countless virtual

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landscapes and I really wanted to bring

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it back and make it specific and make it

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let me get three-dimensional and

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material so I had a CNC routed and then

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I covered it with a pass through a new

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work often with this sort of like

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virtual space or technology yeah

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incorporating it into physical 3d

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contemporary art yeah material practices

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they do

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yeah so that's frequently I'm kind of

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pushing the material world into the

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computer and then kind of pulling it

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back out so there's this yeah the screen

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becomes

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portal like you're saying between this

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virtual and a very like material kind of

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portable I mean I wanted the screen I

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think it's so easy to get lost into the

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virtual about recognizing the kind of

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materiality and the the service and also

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we've got some the metal and all of the

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labor that goes into the kind of

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building of an infrastructure for that

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kind of experience

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I am sharing Sherpa and my work is the

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painting here which I created

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specifically for the show

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and so my practice is more like I was

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trained as a traditional Tibetan artist

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so I used to I spent almost 25 years

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painting images of traditional Buddhist

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icons and but in the later part of my

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practice

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I started veering away from tradition so

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that I could explore my own somehow I

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think it emerged out of my own story out

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of my own like placement in this new

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environment as well as like being

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informed of the history and looking at

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my own like Heritage's history and as a

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Tibetan who I am and all that so it's

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kind of exploring that through these

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images basically and then I started

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because when I was trained as a

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traditional artist we were taught to

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paint these icons very specifically and

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wanted to play with the image and see

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what happens if I were to break the

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boundaries and

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would it be viewed as a sacrilegious

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thing or would it be something new

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beyond what is already confided so

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that's an exploration and I've been

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doing this series in the last like few

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years working with some of the images

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that I painted in the last 25 years I

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have archived these images and I

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manipulate these images sometimes on

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computer a little bit and then redrawing

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these images and over again by

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abstracting playing on the computer by

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trying to see what comes out of it so

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that's the practice and it's also others

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say it's also trying to talk about my

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own situation through the work so it's

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not just the icon itself but also

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looking at my own situation I mean it's

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almost cliche to say displacement in a

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way but as a Tibetan I think it becomes

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very important issue for me because me

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being born in Nepal and never having

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except foot in Tibet and always knowing

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that

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Tibetan so that's remaning like that

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landscape and place and so it's all

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intertwined in the work intense

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well a minute I just think also about

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you know knowing that you're based out

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of California also you know so there's

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sort of a third step exactly exactly

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interesting to try and trace or

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understand the signal

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get some traditions except or even like

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the lineage of knowledge as it is

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carried from place to place yeah and

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also interacting with these images like

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for example whenever I visit the

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museum's or the galleries that deals in

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classical works and seeing its

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functionality like a sacred object comes

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out of this temple and then is placed in

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a museum as a form of art and then again

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it goes to some galleries as a form of

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you know exchange for monetary value or

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whatever so the functionality becomes

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really interesting to think about and so

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I guess I'm probably thinking of all of

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these things

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there's enough anyway actually where I

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was thinking about as in this

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conversation Rhonda the way or pulling

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these images of the sand dunes and kind

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of replicating them and playing with

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distortion within the image and sort of

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an idea of what's up what's the

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authentic sander and experience versus

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like what's the fabricated one and where

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the imagination is and in some ways I

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really feel like I can see that pointing

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out also at your lips yes that's why I

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was really surprised when I was walking

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through the gallery with all the other

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works I could relate to them in a way

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like so what's really interesting to see

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how different other like colleagues

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artists were approaching this like in a

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different manner yeah

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right this idea - that this kind of

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speculative space between the authentic

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or the imagined

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and when you're talking about purpose

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you know these kind of what would be

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sacred objects or chocolate as soon as

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they're moved out of that are they still

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sacred objects and how much of this kind

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of fantasy around them exactly yeah

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exactly

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and I think in a way this kind of

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speculation about the landscape like you

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say being this idealized space may be

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for you to if you're thinking about this

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kind of home or like where is home it's

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thinking about that a lot and this piece

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is kind of we think of ourselves as part

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of this globalized system but there is

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still something about place facing this

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and we see that a lot now with these

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kind of ideas around borders being these

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you know slightly dangerous territories

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right or at least up for questioning in

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a way that I haven't felt in my life

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actually I think in my case like if it

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was a volunteer a voluntary displacement

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versus like forced displacement you know

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so like seeing my parents generation

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basically having to compromise your own

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wish and having to leave that space

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because of the political situation or

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whatever and having to like come with

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the whole group of people and then

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settle in some new space and so I've

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seen those in a way not really

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experienced it myself but I've seen I've

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heard these narratives over and over

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through my parents generation my

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grandparents generation and also a

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number of dependents who came along with

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them so I guess there was lack of choice

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in a sense so that plays out like very

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strongly like whenever you're prohibited

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to do something then you want to do that

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but once you've crossed over the

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crossing back you know to go home to go

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home what would that mean exactly

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exactly yeah also it strikes me that you

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in those moments like the violence at

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borders almost are the way they are

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these kind of theoretical lines that

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like under duress become like hyper

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emphatic that's like when you feel the

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tension and on the one hand how

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arbitrary they are but then on the other

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hand how like unsurpassable or you know

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rigid instead of porous exactly I mean

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in some way it makes me think all sort

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of like Akeno Motors or hermit crabs but

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there's the idea that the hermit crab

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itself is like migrating to different

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structures as it grows but then of

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course there is some amount of

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limitation like in her project she's

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sort of like created different cities

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and so those are the choices that are

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open to the hermit crab but because yeah

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it also makes me interested for both of

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you like how you think about distortion

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or like in visual distortion how that's

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like a useful aesthetic tool I think in

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a way my approach is probably because

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the form that I was working with the

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forms of idols

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there's icons was almost stagnating in a

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way because it almost became a second

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nature like we had to remember

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literally how to draw and I caused by

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repeating it over and over for months

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and so then again there is a confinement

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00:13:23,779 --> 00:13:31,970
like what happens if I were to go beyond

253
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that you know so that ruled restrictions

254
00:13:31,970 --> 00:13:39,890
being bounced inside and I never thought

255
00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:42,140
of it like before I came to America and

256
00:13:39,890 --> 00:13:45,620
it was only after I came to America and

257
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then like I guess because of the

258
00:13:45,620 --> 00:13:50,959
environment I was in and the people that

259
00:13:48,649 --> 00:13:55,180
I was interacting with sort of like

260
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encouraged me to have that I guess

261
00:13:55,180 --> 00:14:05,360
courage I guess yeah I think for me it's

262
00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:07,580
not so much a distortion as I allow like

263
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,380
I push the technology into its kind of

264
00:14:07,580 --> 00:14:12,380
breaking point and so there'll be these

265
00:14:09,380 --> 00:14:14,270
digital artifacts or where you know if

266
00:14:12,380 --> 00:14:16,490
I'm 3d scanning something it's just I

267
00:14:14,270 --> 00:14:20,120
cannot really read the information and I

268
00:14:16,490 --> 00:14:21,980
and let that be in the work as a glitch

269
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:25,190
more than as a like an intentional

270
00:14:21,980 --> 00:14:28,880
distortion but I think in that it does a

271
00:14:25,190 --> 00:14:30,320
couple things one it reveals the system

272
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,330
or the kind of

273
00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:37,790
technology and so the technology is

274
00:14:32,330 --> 00:14:39,680
present but it's also we expects like

275
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seamlessness from digital technologies

276
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:43,700
specifically and so when it starts

277
00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:46,340
breaking down there's something almost

278
00:14:43,700 --> 00:14:48,740
more material like it you can like feel

279
00:14:46,340 --> 00:14:51,770
kind of like churning or the thinking of

280
00:14:48,740 --> 00:14:53,930
the digital technologies and again that

281
00:14:51,770 --> 00:14:56,660
you know it's all for me thinking about

282
00:14:53,930 --> 00:14:59,180
the kind of exposing of the material and

283
00:14:56,660 --> 00:15:01,250
and then and the labor to write I think

284
00:14:59,180 --> 00:15:04,280
digital technologies tend to obscure

285
00:15:01,250 --> 00:15:06,440
labor in a way certainly globalize labor

286
00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:08,000
in this sense there so once you start

287
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:10,040
kind of twisting that or but you know

288
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:13,010
that's a portal or like a way that you

289
00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:15,590
can walk into the work there walk into

290
00:15:13,010 --> 00:15:17,180
the technology or oh I make mistakes too

291
00:15:15,590 --> 00:15:19,400
or I fall down and then when there's a

292
00:15:17,180 --> 00:15:21,920
hole and like you know a digital like

293
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:25,130
model it doesn't have that kind of

294
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:26,600
weightless flow and I think that's

295
00:15:25,130 --> 00:15:29,250
something that I feel that I mean like

296
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:31,080
you're literally pulling you know

297
00:15:29,250 --> 00:15:34,050
it's not just distorted but kind of

298
00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:39,930
interacting think with physics with the

299
00:15:34,050 --> 00:15:41,970
paint or the yeah and then I mean I

300
00:15:39,930 --> 00:15:44,130
guess in some way it just makes me think

301
00:15:41,970 --> 00:15:47,610
again of sort of like the you know

302
00:15:44,130 --> 00:15:50,070
imaginary pastoral landscape or like the

303
00:15:47,610 --> 00:15:52,860
fantasy Alpine mountain and there's a

304
00:15:50,070 --> 00:15:55,740
way where those images are so ubiquitous

305
00:15:52,860 --> 00:15:59,250
that they're kind of generic but there's

306
00:15:55,740 --> 00:16:01,170
I guess for me the kind of glitching

307
00:15:59,250 --> 00:16:03,930
that you're talking about ends up

308
00:16:01,170 --> 00:16:07,770
locating the image in the image itself

309
00:16:03,930 --> 00:16:10,950
rather than like as a call to some

310
00:16:07,770 --> 00:16:13,230
fantasy place right right it actually

311
00:16:10,950 --> 00:16:16,110
asked the viewer to kind of redress that

312
00:16:13,230 --> 00:16:19,260
the process of this kind of virtual or

313
00:16:16,110 --> 00:16:21,660
imaginary the imaginary image right we

314
00:16:19,260 --> 00:16:24,600
kind of see images so much if we take

315
00:16:21,660 --> 00:16:26,010
them for granted so when you when you

316
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,490
break down the image you're kind of

317
00:16:26,010 --> 00:16:28,830
forced

318
00:16:26,490 --> 00:16:34,290
oh you know you can't just assume that

319
00:16:28,830 --> 00:16:36,450
you know what the image is right well

320
00:16:34,290 --> 00:16:39,029
right maybe in another way with you

321
00:16:36,450 --> 00:16:40,620
think about before we move too far away

322
00:16:39,029 --> 00:16:43,829
from the idea of the boundary of I'm

323
00:16:40,620 --> 00:16:46,170
thinking a lot about well when we talk

324
00:16:43,829 --> 00:16:48,570
about globalization it's like what kind

325
00:16:46,170 --> 00:16:51,180
of globalization is like there's this

326
00:16:48,570 --> 00:16:53,940
free moving of capital but but we're

327
00:16:51,180 --> 00:16:56,220
restricting the kind of mobility of the

328
00:16:53,940 --> 00:16:58,139
beings weaker labor producing the

329
00:16:56,220 --> 00:17:00,510
capital that so this is at the really

330
00:16:58,139 --> 00:17:02,550
strange I think I got my yeah even in

331
00:17:00,510 --> 00:17:04,530
like factories and you may be especially

332
00:17:02,550 --> 00:17:07,230
in factories or there's this like really

333
00:17:04,530 --> 00:17:10,980
I mean I always think about how insane

334
00:17:07,230 --> 00:17:14,730
the kind of labor expectation is in sort

335
00:17:10,980 --> 00:17:18,150
of fabricating iPhones and how strange

336
00:17:14,730 --> 00:17:21,179
it is that in like elsewhere in the

337
00:17:18,150 --> 00:17:23,370
world we sort of consume these objects

338
00:17:21,179 --> 00:17:24,809
as though it's like a matter of course

339
00:17:23,370 --> 00:17:26,579
and you always get the new one and you

340
00:17:24,809 --> 00:17:29,630
don't really think about that connection

341
00:17:26,579 --> 00:17:32,429
right quite that the the labor kind of

342
00:17:29,630 --> 00:17:35,280
making these things is in a complex

343
00:17:32,429 --> 00:17:37,049
that's live in many ways like it's kind

344
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,220
of a prison collar right right you're

345
00:17:37,049 --> 00:17:39,480
not allowed to leave there's some phone

346
00:17:38,220 --> 00:17:42,270
these certain days under certain

347
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:44,630
conditions so that the fact that these

348
00:17:42,270 --> 00:17:44,630
men

349
00:17:45,350 --> 00:17:52,279
world and Beach freely traded I think is

350
00:17:49,100 --> 00:17:55,700
it really it's a kind of heartbreaking

351
00:17:52,279 --> 00:17:57,889
exchange in some ways and so I think and

352
00:17:55,700 --> 00:18:03,019
my work that I really try to draw that

353
00:17:57,889 --> 00:18:07,250
to the floor implicate myself so many

354
00:18:03,019 --> 00:18:09,590
times in that process so when I was in

355
00:18:07,250 --> 00:18:12,259
the Salton Sea for instance I was going

356
00:18:09,590 --> 00:18:14,480
and kind of trying it to trace a history

357
00:18:12,259 --> 00:18:17,570
of military technology and I was digging

358
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:19,519
these holes and then like I would stand

359
00:18:17,570 --> 00:18:21,679
over them with the iPhone in particular

360
00:18:19,519 --> 00:18:25,429
and like take the image and then you

361
00:18:21,679 --> 00:18:27,289
know use the Wi-Fi to cellular service

362
00:18:25,429 --> 00:18:28,850
it balance the image off of satellite

363
00:18:27,289 --> 00:18:32,500
and kind of bring it back down but I

364
00:18:28,850 --> 00:18:32,500
wanted to be a part of that

365
00:18:34,930 --> 00:18:43,110
yeah I mean that also makes me think

366
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:45,460
about in some way I I almost feel like

367
00:18:43,110 --> 00:18:49,120
Tonka paintings are the tradition of dr.

368
00:18:45,460 --> 00:18:52,000
benning's it's a way of where the image

369
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:53,920
can become like a kind of portal where

370
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,230
if you study it long enough and you

371
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:58,330
meditate with it long enough you have

372
00:18:56,230 --> 00:19:04,120
your so that you suddenly have access to

373
00:18:58,330 --> 00:19:06,270
a new state of being or experience and I

374
00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:09,130
think there's kind of a really bizarre

375
00:19:06,270 --> 00:19:11,590
but interesting or maybe like uncanny

376
00:19:09,130 --> 00:19:13,900
parallel with like how we relate to the

377
00:19:11,590 --> 00:19:17,040
Internet or how we relate to you know

378
00:19:13,900 --> 00:19:20,080
even if you're designing a video game

379
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:23,260
how you think about that landscape and

380
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:29,280
the parameters of a protagonist moving

381
00:19:23,260 --> 00:19:32,410
through but of course the virtual

382
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:36,430
dimension in those contexts is so much

383
00:19:32,410 --> 00:19:41,440
more ambiguous I think in the case of

384
00:19:36,430 --> 00:19:45,760
taco painting also just visual

385
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:49,060
image like probably that's why I was

386
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:52,390
very eager to play with the image is

387
00:19:49,060 --> 00:19:56,830
because it has to the visual image has

388
00:19:52,390 --> 00:19:59,770
to accompany all the map guiding guided

389
00:19:56,830 --> 00:20:02,020
map along with it without that it just

390
00:19:59,770 --> 00:20:05,370
becomes like what you were saying how

391
00:20:02,020 --> 00:20:10,510
did how did this iPhone appear without

392
00:20:05,370 --> 00:20:13,530
ya so and also probably that has a lot

393
00:20:10,510 --> 00:20:19,080
to do with like when I see many

394
00:20:13,530 --> 00:20:24,370
galleries exchanging this as a as a

395
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:28,150
merchandise you know as as an iPhone

396
00:20:24,370 --> 00:20:31,300
just being exchanged without that guide

397
00:20:28,150 --> 00:20:34,980
map accompanying it and understanding

398
00:20:31,300 --> 00:20:40,530
what this image is all about so I guess

399
00:20:34,980 --> 00:20:40,530
it relates to that as well in some ways

400
00:20:41,010 --> 00:20:46,450
but in the beginning when I was

401
00:20:43,210 --> 00:20:49,870
confronting it it was more from my own

402
00:20:46,450 --> 00:20:52,510
personal like experience I was in

403
00:20:49,870 --> 00:20:56,160
California like in Bay Area and there's

404
00:20:52,510 --> 00:20:59,100
the large number of sympathetic

405
00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:03,059
community for Tibetans and

406
00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:05,519
but in Buddhism with all that and I used

407
00:21:03,059 --> 00:21:11,490
to be a traditional artist and they used

408
00:21:05,519 --> 00:21:13,980
to almost treat me like holy bee and it

409
00:21:11,490 --> 00:21:17,029
was to a point where it was almost

410
00:21:13,980 --> 00:21:21,269
suffocating in a way yeah so I had to

411
00:21:17,029 --> 00:21:24,509
act according to people's projection you

412
00:21:21,269 --> 00:21:33,600
know so I had to be nice I couldn't

413
00:21:24,509 --> 00:21:37,919
drink and on top of that you're like

414
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:39,750
religious I can't painter so I guess

415
00:21:37,919 --> 00:21:43,259
that frustration was always there to

416
00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:45,330
break that notion like I'm as normal as

417
00:21:43,259 --> 00:21:49,080
anybody else I didn't want to be

418
00:21:45,330 --> 00:21:51,290
something different I guess so probably

419
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:54,759
that also helped me

420
00:21:51,290 --> 00:21:59,389
go towards it mm-hmm

421
00:21:54,759 --> 00:22:01,039
there's something too and not so much in

422
00:21:59,389 --> 00:22:03,950
these works but in some of my more

423
00:22:01,039 --> 00:22:06,259
recent works where it's no no it's like

424
00:22:03,950 --> 00:22:08,559
this kind of like the Protestant work

425
00:22:06,259 --> 00:22:11,409
ethic so this idea of like you know what

426
00:22:08,559 --> 00:22:13,730
or or maybe it's this kind of

427
00:22:11,409 --> 00:22:15,830
disassociation from labor that I can get

428
00:22:13,730 --> 00:22:18,559
with a lot of the products and then I

429
00:22:15,830 --> 00:22:20,840
use and also thinking about trying to

430
00:22:18,559 --> 00:22:23,029
address like start thinking about these

431
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:25,340
new massive systems right that we can

432
00:22:23,029 --> 00:22:26,860
really only partially access and usually

433
00:22:25,340 --> 00:22:29,230
through technology

434
00:22:26,860 --> 00:22:31,010
things like what what does it mean what

435
00:22:29,230 --> 00:22:33,410
is the internet medium right

436
00:22:31,010 --> 00:22:36,169
there's constant communication what is

437
00:22:33,410 --> 00:22:37,940
like climate change that's what these

438
00:22:36,169 --> 00:22:40,280
are things that Timothy Morton talks

439
00:22:37,940 --> 00:22:42,260
about is like a deeper objects so it's

440
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,510
like a thing but it's you know it can't

441
00:22:42,260 --> 00:22:47,780
be understood by one person

442
00:22:44,510 --> 00:22:50,720
so trying to insert my labor insert my

443
00:22:47,780 --> 00:22:52,910
body into those systems and was working

444
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:59,390
with mosquitoes in my last project so I

445
00:22:52,910 --> 00:23:01,190
raise mosquitoes and but it's like

446
00:22:59,390 --> 00:23:03,290
hideaway you know for me thinking about

447
00:23:01,190 --> 00:23:06,380
the virus and thinking about like

448
00:23:03,290 --> 00:23:08,720
certainly what you know in the past few

449
00:23:06,380 --> 00:23:10,850
years you know the mosquito means and

450
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:13,669
like can I stick my arm in the best

451
00:23:10,850 --> 00:23:15,470
system or can i and alternatively part

452
00:23:13,669 --> 00:23:17,510
of that project was digging for gold and

453
00:23:15,470 --> 00:23:20,630
extracting coal another really physical

454
00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:22,820
not comfortable labor so I was like how

455
00:23:20,630 --> 00:23:23,920
do I get in see there how do I

456
00:23:22,820 --> 00:23:27,059
understand

457
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:29,669
something that as a westerner so

458
00:23:27,059 --> 00:23:33,749
disassociated from and I can really only

459
00:23:29,669 --> 00:23:36,389
kind of I think Express or play with

460
00:23:33,749 --> 00:23:39,029
that as part of my art practice but it's

461
00:23:36,389 --> 00:23:40,860
just this kind of I wonder how much of

462
00:23:39,029 --> 00:23:43,620
it it's just as an aesthetic layer and

463
00:23:40,860 --> 00:23:45,659
how much am i understanding more about

464
00:23:43,620 --> 00:23:48,679
my technology by digging metal out of

465
00:23:45,659 --> 00:23:48,679
the earth I'm not sure

466
00:23:49,490 --> 00:23:53,460
yeah but that's it's interesting to

467
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,230
train think about how to connect with

468
00:23:53,460 --> 00:23:56,690
your material in some way I mean that

469
00:23:55,230 --> 00:23:59,039
also makes me think about like uh

470
00:23:56,690 --> 00:24:03,570
kirisaki's work where he's like building

471
00:23:59,039 --> 00:24:05,850
a miniature ferris wheel out of a thread

472
00:24:03,570 --> 00:24:09,480
and a towel that it sits on it's like

473
00:24:05,850 --> 00:24:11,070
you know bought from Target or also with

474
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,619
Rebecca Beach's work where she's like

475
00:24:11,070 --> 00:24:16,259
creating this path of horse bones that

476
00:24:13,619 --> 00:24:20,610
have been like processed and fired and

477
00:24:16,259 --> 00:24:21,899
then invited people to walk on it but I

478
00:24:20,610 --> 00:24:24,210
think there's something really

479
00:24:21,899 --> 00:24:27,029
interesting about that question if

480
00:24:24,210 --> 00:24:29,940
you're dealing also with like 2d images

481
00:24:27,029 --> 00:24:33,919
like how do you get in the picture how

482
00:24:29,940 --> 00:24:37,080
do you work with the sort of translation

483
00:24:33,919 --> 00:24:41,070
from whether it's like an imaginary

484
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:42,090
conception or a 3d conception onto this

485
00:24:41,070 --> 00:24:46,710
plane

486
00:24:42,090 --> 00:24:48,630
yeah there's this kind of superficial

487
00:24:46,710 --> 00:24:53,309
maybe experience I don't know if you've

488
00:24:48,630 --> 00:24:56,929
ever been in virtual reality so I was

489
00:24:53,309 --> 00:25:01,470
playing with the oculus rift and the

490
00:24:56,929 --> 00:25:04,470
little introduction into you know into

491
00:25:01,470 --> 00:25:06,870
into the scene was like a office meteor

492
00:25:04,470 --> 00:25:08,700
like sitting at a test time you know

493
00:25:06,870 --> 00:25:10,409
some things on the desk but I was kind

494
00:25:08,700 --> 00:25:13,980
of moving in between virtual and real

495
00:25:10,409 --> 00:25:17,070
space and taking notes and I kind of

496
00:25:13,980 --> 00:25:19,169
pulled the the goggles off and I reached

497
00:25:17,070 --> 00:25:26,039
out for my pencil and I realized just my

498
00:25:19,169 --> 00:25:28,049
hand just hit desk and I realized and

499
00:25:26,039 --> 00:25:30,120
you know it's it may seem very

500
00:25:28,049 --> 00:25:32,130
superficial but this is like there's

501
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:34,289
something that happens once we start

502
00:25:32,130 --> 00:25:36,600
moving into augmented in virtual space

503
00:25:34,289 --> 00:25:39,200
that it's no longer this retinol this

504
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:41,970
like picture plane and you are wholly

505
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,890
transported I don't get confused when I

506
00:25:41,970 --> 00:25:47,130
watch movies or look at you know

507
00:25:43,890 --> 00:25:49,440
pictures about where my body is

508
00:25:47,130 --> 00:25:52,230
in space but you are absolutely

509
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:55,620
transported and I think that we're at

510
00:25:52,230 --> 00:25:58,440
the beginning of a very interesting time

511
00:25:55,620 --> 00:26:03,570
with particularly with augmented reality

512
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:06,539
and virtual reality and I wonder but how

513
00:26:03,570 --> 00:26:09,929
we if we're already kind of losing our

514
00:26:06,539 --> 00:26:11,490
sense of I don't know like I think

515
00:26:09,929 --> 00:26:16,230
reality is kind of up for grabs right

516
00:26:11,490 --> 00:26:17,850
now and if we're already having a hard

517
00:26:16,230 --> 00:26:19,260
time with that and I'm just wondering

518
00:26:17,850 --> 00:26:20,880
what this is going to look like once we

519
00:26:19,260 --> 00:26:24,919
involve something that's a very

520
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:29,580
corporeal like version of like retinol

521
00:26:24,919 --> 00:26:33,870
experience yeah I mean that's like I

522
00:26:29,580 --> 00:26:35,970
feel like this I feel like we're we are

523
00:26:33,870 --> 00:26:37,260
at this strange moment and then I think

524
00:26:35,970 --> 00:26:40,590
you were talking about this a little bit

525
00:26:37,260 --> 00:26:43,220
yesterday I feel like this also comes

526
00:26:40,590 --> 00:26:48,140
out at some of the things

527
00:26:43,220 --> 00:26:50,179
but like we're kind of at this moment I

528
00:26:48,140 --> 00:26:52,520
think where we can choose to go one of

529
00:26:50,179 --> 00:26:56,779
two ways and like maybe that choice is

530
00:26:52,520 --> 00:27:01,730
not totally conscious but are we going

531
00:26:56,779 --> 00:27:04,480
to sort of like reconcile or like use

532
00:27:01,730 --> 00:27:07,340
the exact idea of our moment to like

533
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,720
move towards something more positive or

534
00:27:07,340 --> 00:27:10,909
are we going to move towards something

535
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:15,350
that's more defensive and reflexive

536
00:27:10,909 --> 00:27:18,679
whether it has to do with really

537
00:27:15,350 --> 00:27:21,200
addressing a finite amount of resources

538
00:27:18,679 --> 00:27:25,120
on the earth and how our current way of

539
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:27,970
life cannot support this trajectory or

540
00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:32,230
you know political negotiations between

541
00:27:27,970 --> 00:27:36,080
countries or also country is kind of

542
00:27:32,230 --> 00:27:37,669
incorporating my other force migrations

543
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:41,690
are happening as a result of climate

544
00:27:37,669 --> 00:27:43,640
change or whatever you know yeah we

545
00:27:41,690 --> 00:27:46,789
talked about this you know this kind of

546
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:48,770
crisis the material and the virtual

547
00:27:46,789 --> 00:27:49,389
right and so you can think about you

548
00:27:48,770 --> 00:27:51,879
know

549
00:27:49,389 --> 00:27:54,639
maybe a virtual entity is that

550
00:27:51,879 --> 00:27:56,789
organizing structure or climate change

551
00:27:54,639 --> 00:28:00,039
and so that these are these kind of

552
00:27:56,789 --> 00:28:02,649
virtual crises and then on the ground

553
00:28:00,039 --> 00:28:04,869
what happens when climate changes and

554
00:28:02,649 --> 00:28:06,820
we've seen that you know this summer has

555
00:28:04,869 --> 00:28:09,429
been a really intense time for that and

556
00:28:06,820 --> 00:28:12,129
really exposing some of those systems

557
00:28:09,429 --> 00:28:14,079
and what happens when the material old

558
00:28:12,129 --> 00:28:16,719
meets the countess system of capital

559
00:28:14,079 --> 00:28:19,389
like can it support mass migration can

560
00:28:16,719 --> 00:28:22,839
it support some of these infrastructural

561
00:28:19,389 --> 00:28:25,450
questions and then simply yeah is there

562
00:28:22,839 --> 00:28:28,179
enough material like to continue on this

563
00:28:25,450 --> 00:28:30,190
like you know techno capital is agenda I

564
00:28:28,179 --> 00:28:32,739
mean it's just we're reaching a point

565
00:28:30,190 --> 00:28:34,359
where I think that those limits are

566
00:28:32,739 --> 00:28:37,289
starting to be exposed in that the

567
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:40,209
meaning of the virtual material or

568
00:28:37,289 --> 00:28:42,800
wearing her head and I think as artists

569
00:28:40,209 --> 00:28:46,790
I think is ever everyone at this is

570
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:48,410
xiety producing dilemma right but I also

571
00:28:46,790 --> 00:28:54,020
think as artists were particularly

572
00:28:48,410 --> 00:28:56,960
situated in that we still want to engage

573
00:28:54,020 --> 00:28:59,510
the possible right and so sometimes is

574
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:02,820
it hard hard to kind of you know work

575
00:28:59,510 --> 00:29:04,820
your way through that that bend but

576
00:29:02,820 --> 00:29:07,740
I think that there's ways to still to

577
00:29:04,820 --> 00:29:10,230
the resolution of that conflict I think

578
00:29:07,740 --> 00:29:12,809
it's going to only come through really

579
00:29:10,230 --> 00:29:14,970
speculative discourse and I think the

580
00:29:12,809 --> 00:29:18,919
arts are uniquely positioned in that

581
00:29:14,970 --> 00:29:21,870
phase that makes me think also about

582
00:29:18,919 --> 00:29:23,820
like I see cows alignments video where

583
00:29:21,870 --> 00:29:26,130
actually I was like to perform worse on

584
00:29:23,820 --> 00:29:29,309
the beach and it's interesting because

585
00:29:26,130 --> 00:29:31,350
you feel the landscape itself is very

586
00:29:29,309 --> 00:29:34,139
interactive so there's moments when the

587
00:29:31,350 --> 00:29:35,970
Sun almost seems to spotlight one of the

588
00:29:34,139 --> 00:29:37,500
figures but not the other and then the

589
00:29:35,970 --> 00:29:40,500
Sun withdraws and it's sort of like

590
00:29:37,500 --> 00:29:43,409
darker next so I was thinking about also

591
00:29:40,500 --> 00:29:47,269
how the world we live in is another kind

592
00:29:43,409 --> 00:29:50,639
of totally inclusive like hyper reality

593
00:29:47,269 --> 00:29:54,139
and then you have a project like evany

594
00:29:50,639 --> 00:29:58,169
Patterson's where there's a moment where

595
00:29:54,139 --> 00:30:01,259
Paterson produces these coffins to like

596
00:29:58,169 --> 00:30:04,350
intervene as a kind of procession and to

597
00:30:01,259 --> 00:30:11,549
intervene in a parade and there's so

598
00:30:04,350 --> 00:30:14,179
much energy and new possibility I think

599
00:30:11,549 --> 00:30:15,690
in that kind of simple seemingly simple

600
00:30:14,179 --> 00:30:17,790
intervention

601
00:30:15,690 --> 00:30:20,610
and there's energetic and it's kind of

602
00:30:17,790 --> 00:30:25,470
on the one hand acknowledging a type of

603
00:30:20,610 --> 00:30:30,110
trauma or frustration but then also kind

604
00:30:25,470 --> 00:30:30,110
of putting it to something which I think

605
00:30:30,170 --> 00:30:37,190
in some way it feels also related to how

606
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,190
you're addressing this traditionally

607
00:30:37,220 --> 00:30:44,880
both acknowledging that you were raised

608
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:47,190
in and taught through this structured

609
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:51,780
approach but then also thinking about

610
00:30:47,190 --> 00:30:57,650
what is that in exile exactly and also I

611
00:30:51,780 --> 00:31:02,810
think in some ways like even these

612
00:30:57,650 --> 00:31:10,200
images that are reconstructed images

613
00:31:02,810 --> 00:31:11,380
again it's it's once it goes into public

614
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,370
domain

615
00:31:11,380 --> 00:31:18,690
it depends on how one

616
00:31:14,370 --> 00:31:22,340
takes it rather like a broken images or

617
00:31:18,690 --> 00:31:25,940
sometimes some even see it as a revered

618
00:31:22,340 --> 00:31:29,220
object just like before so it's kind of

619
00:31:25,940 --> 00:31:32,700
very interesting to see that how it

620
00:31:29,220 --> 00:31:43,529
plays out for some of the Buddhists like

621
00:31:32,700 --> 00:31:47,000
these images may appear as codified it's

622
00:31:43,529 --> 00:31:51,710
kind of like we have a tradition called

623
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:55,230
their hidden treasure in Tibetan culture

624
00:31:51,710 --> 00:32:01,289
like I think some masters in the 8th

625
00:31:55,230 --> 00:32:05,429
century but hid some informations like

626
00:32:01,289 --> 00:32:09,029
codes to be revealed in 14th century or

627
00:32:05,429 --> 00:32:13,039
15th centuries just some notes or so

628
00:32:09,029 --> 00:32:16,350
there are like hidden treasures in the

629
00:32:13,039 --> 00:32:19,500
water rock or all kinds of stuff and

630
00:32:16,350 --> 00:32:23,309
based on that like at particular that

631
00:32:19,500 --> 00:32:27,120
time the revealer like from this later

632
00:32:23,309 --> 00:32:30,000
century when he or she interacts with

633
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:34,799
that hidden code then all kinds of

634
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:38,630
teachings appear so some even view it

635
00:32:34,799 --> 00:32:43,919
like ok so this image will be hidden

636
00:32:38,630 --> 00:32:46,550
code for later times you know like maybe

637
00:32:43,919 --> 00:32:47,780
in 50 years like

638
00:32:46,550 --> 00:32:50,840
and what you're trying to say or

639
00:32:47,780 --> 00:32:53,030
something like that so I mean that

640
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:56,570
wasn't my purpose or anything like that

641
00:32:53,030 --> 00:32:58,730
I was just playing with the image but it

642
00:32:56,570 --> 00:33:01,850
all depends on the viewer like how he or

643
00:32:58,730 --> 00:33:04,370
she reacts to him it's kind of

644
00:33:01,850 --> 00:33:06,260
interesting like thinking about that and

645
00:33:04,370 --> 00:33:07,730
the relationships what we're talking

646
00:33:06,260 --> 00:33:11,580
about before camera started rolling

647
00:33:07,730 --> 00:33:15,690
which was this kind of time that notion

648
00:33:11,580 --> 00:33:17,550
and where we exist in time and both kind

649
00:33:15,690 --> 00:33:19,970
of uncomfortable with what happened in

650
00:33:17,550 --> 00:33:22,500
the past don't want to go there

651
00:33:19,970 --> 00:33:25,290
terrified of the future a little bit but

652
00:33:22,500 --> 00:33:27,510
thinking about you know these person we

653
00:33:25,290 --> 00:33:31,140
have the present moment but also who our

654
00:33:27,510 --> 00:33:33,210
audience is and am I even would I even

655
00:33:31,140 --> 00:33:35,970
consider an audience centuries from now

656
00:33:33,210 --> 00:33:38,040
I mean I think that yeah I mean part of

657
00:33:35,970 --> 00:33:40,770
that's the medium that I work in and you

658
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:44,360
know when will that be obsolete but part

659
00:33:40,770 --> 00:33:49,980
of its also I have a hard time thinking

660
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:52,590
through what 200 years 300 years exactly

661
00:33:49,980 --> 00:33:55,710
but that's also I think this really

662
00:33:52,590 --> 00:34:01,290
strange aspect of the time with them is

663
00:33:55,710 --> 00:34:04,620
that I think the sort of Western capital

664
00:34:01,290 --> 00:34:08,630
maybe techno capital paradigm I think

665
00:34:04,620 --> 00:34:08,630
doesn't have the tools to

666
00:34:09,490 --> 00:34:16,040
and yet we produce things like nuclear

667
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:17,570
waste that will sort of outlive us to

668
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:21,350
such an extent that there's like a huge

669
00:34:17,570 --> 00:34:21,680
project and how do you bury new killed

670
00:34:21,350 --> 00:34:23,870
it

671
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:25,400
what if you bury nuclear waste what kind

672
00:34:23,870 --> 00:34:27,860
of signage can you produced it would

673
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:30,710
like communicate with future beings that

674
00:34:27,860 --> 00:34:32,450
may or may not be human or have language

675
00:34:30,710 --> 00:34:35,030
or you know anything and there there's

676
00:34:32,450 --> 00:34:38,830
something about that project itself that

677
00:34:35,030 --> 00:34:41,870
seems so hokey I think because it like

678
00:34:38,830 --> 00:34:44,930
defined that's like the most we can

679
00:34:41,870 --> 00:34:52,280
grapple with that question which i think

680
00:34:44,930 --> 00:34:53,780
is but also I think you know maybe a

681
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:58,190
hundred and two hundred years ago you

682
00:34:53,780 --> 00:35:00,470
could be reasonably assured that like

683
00:34:58,190 --> 00:35:02,990
your future your grandkids and their

684
00:35:00,470 --> 00:35:05,780
kids would live a life that looks more

685
00:35:02,990 --> 00:35:07,910
or less like what you're leaving and

686
00:35:05,780 --> 00:35:10,130
that just can't be no today they can't

687
00:35:07,910 --> 00:35:12,440
see that you know I feel like we go

688
00:35:10,130 --> 00:35:18,090
through these kind of massive shifts

689
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:23,550
exact change is happening so rapidly

690
00:35:18,090 --> 00:35:27,600
it's always unpredictable do you feel

691
00:35:23,550 --> 00:35:29,550
like I mean I think I just think about

692
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:32,310
this since you're both and based out of

693
00:35:29,550 --> 00:35:34,380
the Bay Area how much has that like the

694
00:35:32,310 --> 00:35:35,970
moment and the Bay Area that's going on

695
00:35:34,380 --> 00:35:39,570
right now how much does that influence

696
00:35:35,970 --> 00:35:42,990
the way they work and thank him I think

697
00:35:39,570 --> 00:35:46,020
yeah like I said earlier my practice was

698
00:35:42,990 --> 00:35:49,920
kind of influenced in a way by the

699
00:35:46,020 --> 00:35:52,380
people I was surrounded by I was just

700
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:54,830
like working in a Buddhist community in

701
00:35:52,380 --> 00:35:54,830
the beginning

702
00:35:54,920 --> 00:36:01,940
being projected on me as a certain way I

703
00:35:57,799 --> 00:36:02,840
probably was rebellious and was trying

704
00:36:01,940 --> 00:36:06,820
to

705
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:10,880
about it apart from that like also

706
00:36:06,820 --> 00:36:14,900
what's happening in Bay Area is that I

707
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:20,390
think I felt in a way it was if there's

708
00:36:14,900 --> 00:36:23,780
a more conscious at least with the

709
00:36:20,390 --> 00:36:27,140
people that I interact there's some sort

710
00:36:23,780 --> 00:36:29,150
of a conscious decision or a conscious

711
00:36:27,140 --> 00:36:33,590
approach of what's happening in the

712
00:36:29,150 --> 00:36:37,010
world in a larger way and that sort of

713
00:36:33,590 --> 00:36:40,850
helps me understand try to understand

714
00:36:37,010 --> 00:36:43,610
that a little bit and because I see a

715
00:36:40,850 --> 00:36:46,510
huge contrast between I go back and

716
00:36:43,610 --> 00:36:50,630
forth between Nepal and Bay Area so

717
00:36:46,510 --> 00:36:54,200
there's this like space where everyone

718
00:36:50,630 --> 00:36:57,590
is talking in a very larger scale in a

719
00:36:54,200 --> 00:37:01,250
bigger picture and I go to Nepal a place

720
00:36:57,590 --> 00:37:07,310
like where people are focused on their

721
00:37:01,250 --> 00:37:12,110
everyday survival you know so that shift

722
00:37:07,310 --> 00:37:19,690
actually like really baffles me at times

723
00:37:12,110 --> 00:37:22,930
and having to like adjust in that

724
00:37:19,690 --> 00:37:28,570
environment also becomes kind of a very

725
00:37:22,930 --> 00:37:29,950
interesting dichotomy the city right now

726
00:37:28,570 --> 00:37:34,630
such displacement

727
00:37:29,950 --> 00:37:37,030
- so transitory that I think that's kind

728
00:37:34,630 --> 00:37:39,490
of looking in or taking care that I

729
00:37:37,030 --> 00:37:41,530
think that that would be a wonderful

730
00:37:39,490 --> 00:37:43,570
thing to happen in the band certainly

731
00:37:41,530 --> 00:37:46,720
what I move there it had more aspects of

732
00:37:43,570 --> 00:37:50,820
that but I think it's important for me

733
00:37:46,720 --> 00:37:53,620
as an artist who deals was kind of the

734
00:37:50,820 --> 00:37:56,260
cultural fallout and the kind of like

735
00:37:53,620 --> 00:37:59,470
social implications of technology and

736
00:37:56,260 --> 00:38:00,640
this is thinking about economics I think

737
00:37:59,470 --> 00:38:04,090
it's really important for me to stay

738
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:07,630
there and see see what's happening

739
00:38:04,090 --> 00:38:10,360
I teach alright Jess I was teaching for

740
00:38:07,630 --> 00:38:12,340
a long time at Stanford and most of my

741
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,590
students were coming from engineering

742
00:38:12,340 --> 00:38:18,970
department and see yet computer science

743
00:38:14,590 --> 00:38:19,780
and so I got to kind of engage with the

744
00:38:18,970 --> 00:38:22,690
future

745
00:38:19,780 --> 00:38:25,500
you know venture capitalists deitrick

746
00:38:22,690 --> 00:38:30,580
technologists of San Francisco and I

747
00:38:25,500 --> 00:38:31,720
think that there's this kind of this

748
00:38:30,580 --> 00:38:34,000
kind of conversation that we're having

749
00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:36,580
and it happens frequently in the arts is

750
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:39,910
not being had to a certain degree in

751
00:38:36,580 --> 00:38:45,220
some of the tech sectors tech sectors

752
00:38:39,910 --> 00:38:47,320
and I wonder about that and I felt like

753
00:38:45,220 --> 00:38:49,750
as part of my practice it was to kind of

754
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:52,480
introduce some of these questions I mean

755
00:38:49,750 --> 00:38:58,540
to say I don't know in the engineering

756
00:38:52,480 --> 00:39:01,060
world is not unacceptable in the arts

757
00:38:58,540 --> 00:39:03,760
that's kind of where we start we assume

758
00:39:01,060 --> 00:39:11,020
right Andy I don't know is a is a place

759
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:12,550
to move towards so yeah I think living

760
00:39:11,020 --> 00:39:17,610
in the Bay Area is over very it's a very

761
00:39:12,550 --> 00:39:20,140
interesting time right now but I think

762
00:39:17,610 --> 00:39:22,390
microcosm and maybe a hyperbolized

763
00:39:20,140 --> 00:39:25,770
version of what could happen is

764
00:39:22,390 --> 00:39:28,480
happening in other cities and

765
00:39:25,770 --> 00:39:30,880
yeah I just know I mean I haven't been

766
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:34,290
back very often but when I went back the

767
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,290
last time who is amazing how

768
00:39:34,500 --> 00:39:41,910
but changed because of like Google buses

769
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:45,510
and so the that sort of tech presences

770
00:39:41,910 --> 00:39:49,190
so like ubiquitous and then you also

771
00:39:45,510 --> 00:39:52,650
have this like kind of 1960s

772
00:39:49,190 --> 00:39:54,420
revolutionary hippie history that I

773
00:39:52,650 --> 00:39:56,610
think this still kind of you know if you

774
00:39:54,420 --> 00:40:00,480
like Haight Ashbury is still like a kind

775
00:39:56,610 --> 00:40:02,880
of tourist destination well I think the

776
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,830
end of the tech industry is to feel like

777
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,450
they've kind of taken on that charge and

778
00:40:04,830 --> 00:40:08,940
I really feel like this notion of

779
00:40:06,450 --> 00:40:11,400
disruption and revolution like they

780
00:40:08,940 --> 00:40:14,070
they've taken that language and some of

781
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:16,650
the concepts and the aesthetics of it

782
00:40:14,070 --> 00:40:18,870
but it it's shifted right it's a

783
00:40:16,650 --> 00:40:20,880
neoliberal agenda it's no longer the you

784
00:40:18,870 --> 00:40:22,890
know for better for worse I think that

785
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,840
the counterculture of the 60s there was

786
00:40:22,890 --> 00:40:28,530
an earnestness and that kind of trying

787
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:29,850
to try something new and I think that

788
00:40:28,530 --> 00:40:31,530
the tech companies a lot of them think

789
00:40:29,850 --> 00:40:32,700
that they are and it's certainly that's

790
00:40:31,530 --> 00:40:36,510
you know kind of the language that's

791
00:40:32,700 --> 00:40:37,800
like use with these companies and I

792
00:40:36,510 --> 00:40:39,870
don't know you know this is me kind of

793
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,850
hearing it from the outside you know

794
00:40:39,870 --> 00:40:43,920
points of entry I have and so maybe they

795
00:40:41,850 --> 00:40:49,110
are you know revolutionary but I feel

796
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:52,290
like perhaps the how revolutionary can

797
00:40:49,110 --> 00:40:53,640
like a new app be or you know I think

798
00:40:52,290 --> 00:40:55,560
that our rhythms are pretty

799
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:55,890
revolutionary but they're invisible

800
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,380
right

801
00:40:55,890 --> 00:40:59,579
there they're accumulating data and

802
00:40:58,380 --> 00:41:02,700
wealth in ways that are kind of

803
00:40:59,579 --> 00:41:03,839
invisible whereas the Google buses and

804
00:41:02,700 --> 00:41:05,130
this has been happening for a lot of

805
00:41:03,839 --> 00:41:09,140
time but it was further down the

806
00:41:05,130 --> 00:41:12,359
peninsula so like you didn't see how the

807
00:41:09,140 --> 00:41:13,500
industry landscape was shifting but now

808
00:41:12,359 --> 00:41:15,839
that it's kind of being brought into the

809
00:41:13,500 --> 00:41:17,599
city it's you know it's made visible so

810
00:41:15,839 --> 00:41:30,569
for better for worse at least we get to

811
00:41:17,599 --> 00:41:32,039
know it's good I mean I I don't know for

812
00:41:30,569 --> 00:41:34,859
me I feel like they're quite parallel

813
00:41:32,039 --> 00:41:45,359
but it's not like an obvious parallel

814
00:41:34,859 --> 00:41:46,980
it's not one we can sort of I'd love to

815
00:41:45,359 --> 00:41:49,170
hear if there are projects you're

816
00:41:46,980 --> 00:41:53,940
excited about that are coming up or kind

817
00:41:49,170 --> 00:41:57,809
of what's next for you I am taking a

818
00:41:53,940 --> 00:42:02,160
little break and the project is actually

819
00:41:57,809 --> 00:42:06,900
I've been working quite a lot in the

820
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:09,500
last like three four years and I wanted

821
00:42:06,900 --> 00:42:12,920
to take a break and

822
00:42:09,500 --> 00:42:17,109
I'm focusing on like trying to start a

823
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:21,710
small traditional art school in Nepal

824
00:42:17,109 --> 00:42:27,470
because lately I'm seeing there's due to

825
00:42:21,710 --> 00:42:31,400
internet more people in Nepal have

826
00:42:27,470 --> 00:42:35,000
access to information and they have

827
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:39,319
there is little artist communities

828
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:42,410
emerging like in Nepal so which is

829
00:42:39,319 --> 00:42:46,250
something very very new to me when I

830
00:42:42,410 --> 00:42:51,050
left and Apollo 20 years wasn't visible

831
00:42:46,250 --> 00:42:53,420
at all so I felt very encouraged

832
00:42:51,050 --> 00:42:55,670
so probably going back and starting that

833
00:42:53,420 --> 00:42:59,290
school and interacting with the artists

834
00:42:55,670 --> 00:43:02,829
community over there and seeing like

835
00:42:59,290 --> 00:43:02,829
what happens

836
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:14,830
so yeah I think the making work

837
00:43:10,030 --> 00:43:19,570
specifically for virtual space well

838
00:43:14,830 --> 00:43:21,790
while maintaining wholly committed to

839
00:43:19,570 --> 00:43:24,250
the physical so I think one thing that

840
00:43:21,790 --> 00:43:26,170
happens when you go into VR in gaming

841
00:43:24,250 --> 00:43:28,470
you're transported right but how do we

842
00:43:26,170 --> 00:43:32,339
bring the body back is there way to like

843
00:43:28,470 --> 00:43:35,440
that our bodies are still present so I

844
00:43:32,339 --> 00:43:37,000
worked it was a piece that I exhibited

845
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:39,099
but I wasn't sure I'm not sure that it

846
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,869
was like finished or it was like kind of

847
00:43:39,099 --> 00:43:42,280
you know I think it was the question

848
00:43:40,869 --> 00:43:44,950
that were made to open it so where I'll

849
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:47,380
be pushing into but I was working with a

850
00:43:44,950 --> 00:43:50,530
3d scan of a male bottle and then

851
00:43:47,380 --> 00:43:52,390
mapping using motion capture to map my

852
00:43:50,530 --> 00:43:55,030
movements onto his body and so there's

853
00:43:52,390 --> 00:43:57,190
this kind of displacement but also kind

854
00:43:55,030 --> 00:43:59,380
of sampled from the real but

855
00:43:57,190 --> 00:44:03,369
displacement of the kind of virtual and

856
00:43:59,380 --> 00:44:07,180
the body so I think I'll be working with

857
00:44:03,369 --> 00:44:10,450
a group of dancers and body workers and

858
00:44:07,180 --> 00:44:13,070
body somatic healers to kind of I don't

859
00:44:10,450 --> 00:44:17,200
know what that looks like but it

860
00:44:13,070 --> 00:44:17,200
right now so we'll see what

861
00:44:20,790 --> 00:44:24,880
yeah thanks again

862
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,280
[Music]

863
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:30,580
thank you

864
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:30,580
[Laughter]

Caroline Picard: “I mean that also makes me think about – in some way, I, uh, I almost feel like Thangka paintings, or the tradition of Thangka paintings, is a way of um, where the image can become, like, a kind of portal …”

Tsherin Sherpa: “Yeah.”

CP: “… where if you study it long enough and meditate with it long enough you have, you suddenly have access …”

TS: “Yes.”

CP: “… to a new … um ... state of being, or experience, and I think there's a kind of a really bizarre but interesting or maybe like uncanny parallel with, like, how we relate to the internet, or how we relate to, you know, even if you’re designing a video game how you think about that landscape and the parameters of a protagonist moving through ... um ... but of course the virtual dimensions in those contexts are so much more ambiguous.”

TS: “I think, in the, in the case of thangka painting also just the visual image, like, probably that’s why I was very eager to play with the image, is because it has to, the visual image, has to accompany all the map, the guiding map along with it, without that is just becomes what you were saying how did this iPhone appear without you know, like. So yeah, and also probably that has a lot to do with when i see many galleries exchanging this as a merchandise you know uh as an iPhone just being exchanged without that guide-map accompanying it and understand ing what this image is all about. So, I guess it relates to that as well, in some ways. But, in the beginning when I was confronting it, it was from more of my personal life experience. I was in California, like in the bay area, and there’s a large number of, uh, sympathetic, uh, communities for Tibetans and Tibetan Buddhism and all that, but I used to be a traditional artist and they used to always treat me like a “holy being”

[laughter]

TS: “and it was to a point where it was almost suffocating in a way, yeah. So, I had to act according to people's projection, you know, so I had to be nice, I couldn’t drink …”

[laughter]

TS: “... I couldn't eat meat, you’re a Buddhist, but on top of that you're a religious icon painter. So, I guess that frustration was always there to break that notion, like, I’m as normal as anybody else and I didn’t want to be something different, I guess. So, probably that also helped me go towards it.”

Rhonda Holberton: “Yeah. there’s something too … um .. not so much in these works but in some of my more recent works where it’s, um, I don't know if it’s like this kind of like, the protestant work ethic – so this idea of like, you know, or maybe it’s kind of this disassociation from labor that i feel with a lot of the projects, and that I use in also thinking about trying to address, like start thinking about these massive systems, right …”

CP: “mhm”

RH: “... that we really can only partially access, and usually through technology. Things like, uh, what does it mean, what does the internet mean? Right, like there’s this constant communication. What is climate change? These things that Timothy Morton talks about as like Hyperobjects, so it’s like a thing but it can’t be understood by one person. So, trying to insert my labor or insert my body into those systems, and was working with mosquitos in my last project so I raised mosquitoes and …”

TS: “Oh.”

[laughter]

RH: “... so, you know, for me thinking about the virus and thinking about, like, certainly, what, in the past few years, the mosquito means and can I stick my arm into that system or can I – and alternatively part of that project was digging for gold, and extracting gold, another really physical not comfortable labor. So, it’s like how do I get into there, how do i understand something that as a Westerner I’m so disassociated from, and I can really only, kind of, I think, express or play with that as part of my art practice, but it’s just this, kind of, I wonder how much is just this aesthetic layer …”

TS: “Yeah.”

RH: “... and how much am I understanding more about my technology by digging metal out of the earth. I’m not sure.”

|>

 

Caroline Picard is an artist, writer, publisher, and curator who explores the figure in relation to systems of power through on-going investigations of inter-species borders, how the human relates to its environment and what possibilities might emerge from upturning an anthropocentric world view. Her writing has appeared in publications like ArtForum (critics picks), Flash Art International, Hyperallergic, Paper Monument, The Seen, and e-flux’s live blog. In 2014 she was the Curatorial Fellow at La Box, ENSA in France, and became a member of the SYNAPSE International Curators’ Network of the Haus der Kulturen der Welt in Berlin in 2015. She is the Executive Director of The Green Lantern Press—a nonprofit publishing house and art producer in operation since 2005—and Co-Director of Sector 2337, a hybrid artspace/bar/bookstore in Chicago. www.sector2337.com.

Rhonda Holberton (b. Reston, VA, 1981) is an Oakland-based artist whose multimedia installations make use of digital and interactive technologies integrated into traditional methods of art production. Holberton has exhibited at San Jose Institute of Contemporary Art, FIFI Projects Mexico City, the San Francisco Arts Commission, and The Berkeley Art Center. Her work has been featured in Art in America, Pulse Magazine, and the Copenhagen Institute for Futures Studies. She is currently a lecturer in experimental media at Stanford University and joined San Jose State University as an Assistant Professor in Digital Media Arts in the fall of 2017. Holberton is represented by CULT | Aimee Frieberg Exhibitions.

Tsherin Sherpa (b. Kathmandu, 1968) studied traditional Tibetan thangka painting from the age of twelve under the guidance of his father, Master Urgen Dorje, a renowned thangka artist from Ngyalam, Tibet. After six years of intense formal training, he left to study Mandarin and computer science in Taiwan. Three years later, he returned to Nepal working with his father in numerous projects that included painting thangkas and monastery murals. In 1998 he moved to the USA working as a thangka artist and as an instructor at several Buddhist centers in California. In recent years his emphasis has shifted from traditional subjects to more contemporary concerns, including imagining what traditional Tibetan spirits would now look like if they too had left Tibet and journeyed with him to California. In 2010 he was featured in the groundbreaking museum show in Beijing, The Scorching Sun of Tibet, as well as the landmark Rubin Museum show Tradition Transformed – Tibetan Artist’s Respond, in New York. In 2012 he had his first solo show at Rossi & Rossi, London. Sherpa lives and works in California.